diff --git a/packages/orchestration/src/examples/stakeBld.contract.js b/packages/orchestration/src/examples/stakeBld.contract.js
index 66281b747ac7..2e9ab0199d07 100644
--- a/packages/orchestration/src/examples/stakeBld.contract.js
+++ b/packages/orchestration/src/examples/stakeBld.contract.js
@@ -10,6 +10,7 @@ import { E } from '@endo/far';
 import { deeplyFulfilled } from '@endo/marshal';
 import { M } from '@endo/patterns';
 import { prepareLocalChainAccountKit } from '../exos/local-chain-account-kit.js';
+import { makeChainHub } from '../utils/chainHub.js';
 
 /**
  * @import {NameHub} from '@agoric/vats';
@@ -44,19 +45,12 @@ export const start = async (zcf, privateArgs, baggage) => {
     privateArgs.marshaller,
   );
 
-  // FIXME in a second incarnation we can't make a remote call before defining all kinds
-  // UNTIL https://github.com/Agoric/agoric-sdk/issues/8879
-  const agoricChainInfo = await E(privateArgs.agoricNames).lookup(
-    'chain',
-    'agoric',
-  );
-
   const makeLocalChainAccountKit = prepareLocalChainAccountKit(
     zone,
     makeRecorderKit,
     zcf,
     privateArgs.timerService,
-    agoricChainInfo,
+    makeChainHub(privateArgs.agoricNames),
   );
 
   async function makeLocalAccountKit() {
diff --git a/packages/orchestration/src/examples/swapExample.contract.js b/packages/orchestration/src/examples/swapExample.contract.js
index 448663f7eb1a..34c0f83a16e1 100644
--- a/packages/orchestration/src/examples/swapExample.contract.js
+++ b/packages/orchestration/src/examples/swapExample.contract.js
@@ -5,8 +5,11 @@ import { makeDurableZone } from '@agoric/zone/durable.js';
 import { Far } from '@endo/far';
 import { deeplyFulfilled } from '@endo/marshal';
 import { M, objectMap } from '@endo/patterns';
+import { prepareRecorderKitMakers } from '@agoric/zoe/src/contractSupport/recorder.js';
 import { makeOrchestrationFacade } from '../facade.js';
 import { orcUtils } from '../utils/orc.js';
+import { makeChainHub } from '../utils/chainHub.js';
+import { prepareLocalChainAccountKit } from '../exos/local-chain-account-kit.js';
 
 /**
  * @import {Orchestrator, IcaAccount, CosmosValidatorAddress} from '../types.js'
@@ -25,6 +28,7 @@ export const meta = {
     localchain: M.remotable('localchain'),
     orchestrationService: M.or(M.remotable('orchestration'), null),
     storageNode: StorageNodeShape,
+    marshaller: M.remotable('marshaller'),
     timerService: M.or(TimerServiceShape, null),
   },
   upgradability: 'canUpgrade',
@@ -48,6 +52,7 @@ export const makeNatAmountShape = (brand, min) =>
  *   orchestrationService: Remote<OrchestrationService>;
  *   storageNode: Remote<StorageNode>;
  *   timerService: Remote<TimerService>;
+ *   marshaller: Marshaller;
  * }} privateArgs
  * @param {Baggage} baggage
  */
@@ -62,16 +67,28 @@ export const start = async (zcf, privateArgs, baggage) => {
     orchestrationService,
     storageNode,
     timerService,
+    marshaller,
   } = privateArgs;
 
+  const chainHub = makeChainHub(agoricNames);
+  const { makeRecorderKit } = prepareRecorderKitMakers(baggage, marshaller);
+  const makeLocalChainAccountKit = prepareLocalChainAccountKit(
+    zone,
+    makeRecorderKit,
+    zcf,
+    timerService,
+    chainHub,
+  );
+
   const { orchestrate } = makeOrchestrationFacade({
-    agoricNames,
     localchain,
     orchestrationService,
     storageNode,
     timerService,
     zcf,
     zone,
+    chainHub,
+    makeLocalChainAccountKit,
   });
 
   /** deprecated historical example */
diff --git a/packages/orchestration/src/examples/unbondExample.contract.js b/packages/orchestration/src/examples/unbondExample.contract.js
index 70ae1696114e..6e0e67291cf6 100644
--- a/packages/orchestration/src/examples/unbondExample.contract.js
+++ b/packages/orchestration/src/examples/unbondExample.contract.js
@@ -1,7 +1,10 @@
 import { makeDurableZone } from '@agoric/zone/durable.js';
 import { Far } from '@endo/far';
 import { M } from '@endo/patterns';
+import { prepareRecorderKitMakers } from '@agoric/zoe/src/contractSupport/recorder.js';
 import { makeOrchestrationFacade } from '../facade.js';
+import { makeChainHub } from '../utils/chainHub.js';
+import { prepareLocalChainAccountKit } from '../exos/local-chain-account-kit.js';
 
 /**
  * @import {Orchestrator, IcaAccount, CosmosValidatorAddress} from '../types.js'
@@ -20,6 +23,7 @@ import { makeOrchestrationFacade } from '../facade.js';
  *   localchain: Remote<LocalChain>;
  *   orchestrationService: Remote<OrchestrationService>;
  *   storageNode: Remote<StorageNode>;
+ *   marshaller: Marshaller;
  *   timerService: Remote<TimerService>;
  * }} privateArgs
  * @param {Baggage} baggage
@@ -30,18 +34,29 @@ export const start = async (zcf, privateArgs, baggage) => {
     localchain,
     orchestrationService,
     storageNode,
+    marshaller,
     timerService,
   } = privateArgs;
   const zone = makeDurableZone(baggage);
 
+  const chainHub = makeChainHub(agoricNames);
+  const { makeRecorderKit } = prepareRecorderKitMakers(baggage, marshaller);
+  const makeLocalChainAccountKit = prepareLocalChainAccountKit(
+    zone,
+    makeRecorderKit,
+    zcf,
+    privateArgs.timerService,
+    chainHub,
+  );
   const { orchestrate } = makeOrchestrationFacade({
-    agoricNames,
     localchain,
     orchestrationService,
     storageNode,
     timerService,
     zcf,
     zone,
+    chainHub: makeChainHub(agoricNames),
+    makeLocalChainAccountKit,
   });
 
   /** @type {OfferHandler} */