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Issue with first hour chemical outputs #67
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@drnimbusrain could you add some info about the config etc.? |
These are "community" runs we are doing on Hera, and the example for Zach's plots above is for a continuous/warm start run on Aug 01-10, 2019. Here is the configuration for these runs:
|
What species? |
all chemical species except for CO (just recently added) represent hourly-averaged fields (backward). This is the reason that we need to ignore the first record (i.e., the IC) for model data evaluation and comparison. |
For the prod files, we do have hourly-averaged and instantaneous fields (e.g., O3 and PM2.5) for chemical species but all are for surface only. |
@zmoon @drnimbusrain As Jianping pointed out, please use f001-f024 for dyn files and record 01-24 in prod files for your analysis if you're using the hourly-averaged fields, since the hourly average was calculated backward. |
@KaiWang-NOAA @JianpingHuang-NOAA thanks for the explanation. Is this just temporary, or is this the way it's going to be going forward indefinitely? |
This is our final product for aqm v7.
…On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 1:54 PM Zachary Moon ***@***.***> wrote:
@KaiWang-NOAA <https://github.com/KaiWang-NOAA> @JianpingHuang-NOAA
<https://github.com/JianpingHuang-NOAA> thanks for the explanation. Is
this just temporary, or is this the way it's going to be going forward
indefinitely?
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@KaiWang-NOAA Is this only for chemical species though? That is, for meteo variables like temperature and surface pressure should we still use f000-f023? |
Our results seem to suggest the first record isn't currently actually the IC though, at least not an IC based on the previous cycle, since the values are too low. |
@KaiWang-NOAA @JianpingHuang-NOAA This seems very strange, and please provide more clarification as to why this is. The values for the first 000 hour are not zero as an initialization would suggest. The values are instead very low and not physical, but they are not zero. What averaging would cause such low values? As Zach mentioned, the phy and dyn met variables are then inconsistent with the chem variables, and the theory of backwards averaging. All met values make sense across the 024 to 000 next day. Further, if this is indeed true, how would any community user know this detail. It seems we should find a better fix to this as the output is awkward. |
Please ignore the first record for the average chemical fields. The first
record doesn’t represent initial condition. For the meteorological
variables, all represent instantaneous values. Please make sure both
simulations and observations are consistent with the same time when you
compare them.
…On Wed, Mar 8, 2023 at 4:38 PM Zachary Moon ***@***.***> wrote:
we need to ignore the first record (i.e., the IC) for model data
evaluation and comparison
Our results seem to suggest the first record isn't currently actually the
IC though, at least not an IC based on the previous cycle, since the values
are too low.
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@JianpingHuang-NOAA Ah, OK, I see the issue. However, still very awkward to have the hourly average chem output not be continuous from the previous cycle. I think this will be an issue with community users of this system. |
@drnimbusrain
Please ignore the 1st record for hourly average fields. For community uses, they can follow what we are doing to verify hourly average O3 and PM2.5. If they want to look at instantaneous fields, they can add any chemical species back by modifying diag_table. We minimize the number of 3-D chemical fields (4 ave species: o3_ave, pm25_ave, no_ave, no2_ave + one instant. for co) to reduce 3-D file size for supporting AQM v7 operational implementation. The file size of each 3D file (dyn) was reduced from 20GB to 1.1. GB. |
Ok Jianping, sounds fine to modify diag table, but expect to have questions
from users to get instantaneous back. Currently, hour 000 is not
continuous from previous day's forecast.
…On Thu, Mar 9, 2023, 8:18 AM JianpingHuang-NOAA ***@***.***> wrote:
@drnimbusrain <https://github.com/drnimbusrain>
The hourly chem output are continues. Here is an example.
1. 00z cycle run: hourly average chemical fields output at 01z (the1st
fcst hr), 02z, 03z, 04z, 05z, 06z (i.e., the 6th fcst hr)
2. 06z cycle: hourly average chemical fields at 07z (the 1st fcst
hour), 08z, .....
For community uses, they can follow what we are doing to verify hourly
average O3 and PM2.5. If they want to look at instantaneous fields, they
can add any chemical species back by modifying diag_table. We minimize the
number of 3-D chemical fields (4 ave species: o3_ave, pm25_ave, no_ave,
no2_ave + one instant. for co) to reduce 3-D file size for supporting AQM
v7 operational implementation. The file size of each 3D file (dyn) was
reduced from 20GB to 1.1. GB.
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That is a good point. I will create a separate diag_table file for the research community users later. |
The first hour should not be zero. It should be the concentration at the previous hour. And in reality we should have the option to do hourly or instantaneous. @chan-hoo Once things calm down can we get this added to the workflow to add the option for instantaneous versus hourly averaged fields. The difference for most variables are negligible for the most part. |
@bbakernoaa, sure. I'll reach out to you once all my urgent tasks for AQMv7 are completed. |
@chan-hoo Awesome! Thanks |
@chan-hoo is this still an issue or was it solved? |
@bbakernoaa , I am sorry. It was long ago, so I don't remember much. If this was not done yet, we can add it to the workflow. I think @drnimbusrain may have an answer to this :) |
Description:
In our recent runs, we noticed that in our outputs, the concentrations drop to low (species- and time-dependent) values in the first hour, but otherwise look normal. Someone in our group suggested that it could be that the data is getting written out before the initial condition from the previous cycle is read.
This occurs for chemical species in the
dyn.f???
andaqm.prod
files.Some details for variables
pm25_ave
,o3_ave
,no2_ave
From
dyn.f???
files 👇Demonstrating the species and time dependence of the low 12z values (domain-mean time series at 12z) 👇
From
aqm.prod
files 👇How To Reproduce:
Additional context:
Screenshots/Logs:
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