Remove Race for Victory 3 from Rotations

[DoomRobotBoy]

I think it's time Race for Victory 3 should go. I though I think it had it's best days.

• The map is not able to be defended. Unless you defend with your entire team, or largest part of it, you can hold this map on for longer then 10 minutes. There are 2 ways into a wool room on this map, and you can't defend them both. If one defense is being set up another one falls. Enemies with wool room gear can easily enter other wools causing the triple cap phenomenon to be very common on this map. The back wool is never defended and why should you? It's right between wools, meaning it can be entered from two directions of enemies with wool room gear. No walls can really stop them, especially because there are no bedrock walls. The height difference is very low so standing near the wool room won't make your position better to intruders.
• There is a huge chokepoint causing for very chaotic front lines. If the map hasn't been rushed before things begin to clutter and when the front lines will fill up without progress there will be no other strategy but starting a skybridge war, with some people sneaking using under bridges beneath it.

It's now more of a wool-farming map, which will either end up in a quick rush with 1 guy getting a triple cap or it will end up in a skybridge war ending 15 minutes later. I think that the idea of the server (it being a circle having something important on every 'end' (3 wool rooms and the front lines)) is nice, though it won't do as good today as it did when it was made.

There are however good replacements with similar idea's like Fourchette, where defending is better to do, and where games won't be stalematey or end the same.

[CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

I think if more players were on the map, it would be much more enjoyable.

Also, has anyone played RFV4, and if it could be a good choice for rotations?

[DoomRobotBoy]

@CoWinkKeyDinkInc The matches are usually pretty much filled up, and yet what I described above continues to happen.

Also, I've played RFV 4 once and I think it's a bit too messy and lacking aesthetics for it to go in the rots.

[eliyap]

I've never been overly fond of the map. mapdevs, ratings?

[Superjd10]

@CoWinkKeyDinkInc @DoomRobotBoy RFV4 is a joke map and an admin told me that the RFV3 is the last RFV map.

I agree with the OP, defending alone (or with 2 more players) is impossible, the wool year makes it easier for the enemy,if you defend 1 wool, they would get the gear from another and get in easily.

[Statcoman]

Defending is extremely hard on this map. I think its a good idea to remove
it.

On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 9:13 AM, José Daniel Durán <[email protected]

wrote:

@CoWinkKeyDinkInc https://github.com/CoWinkKeyDinkInc @DoomRobotBoy
https://github.com/DoomRobotBoy RFV4 is a joke map and an admin told me
that the RFV3 is the last RFV map.

I agree with the OP, defending alone (or with 2 more players) is
impossible, the wool year makes it easier for the enemy,if you defend 1
wool, they would get the gear from another and get in easily.

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[Matic0B]

Its not too friendly to defenders and thats why some people like it as they can get easier objectives but I don't think it should be removed unless ratings are under 3.7

[Mikeg542]

Rating is 3.84 putting it as a top 3 rated CTW of all time. I STILL agree with removing it

[Matic0B]

Hmm...

@Mikeg542 Theres a couple improvements that I would suggest to make defending a bit better which is making the "lane" infront of the wool room a bit thinner and maybe giving players weakness if they are in the wool room it self. Could make people a bit more encouraged to defend.

[HIVERaven]

@Mikeg542 That's probably all the players who want to farm objectives to get on a tourney team.

[Electroid]

If a map is rating so highly and seems to be enjoyed widely.. why remove people's fun? Their motivation doesn't matter much. And really "to get on a tourney team" is stretching this origin out too far.

[tonybruess]

Just played a match, a bedrock wall for the first 5 minutes would help. The rushing and triple capping is a PITA.

[CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

@mrapple People will get bored after two minutes, the wall can't be there for too long.

[tonybruess]

5 minutes to get armored up and start building some defense would go a long ways IMHO

[Matic0B]

@mrapple A minute would be enough but I think maybe making wool rooms open only after a team gets 20 kills (if possible, maybe with monument modes) could fix the issue. Some people might dislike that but it might work.

[Superjd10]

So what about a bedrock wall for 2 minutes in the middle and a bedrock wall for 5 minutes in the wools?

[eliyap]

@mrapple Well you made the map, will you continue to develop it?

I think a bedrock wall would be excessive, but some sort of pre made defense is needed

[DoomRobotBoy]

Using crazy XML on this map isn't any good. Bedrock walls will not solve any gameplay, you basically just force the map to stalemate. The map isn't any good any more. The insane chokepoint annihilates every sort of gameplay this map could offer. Everything just clogs up near the front lines making the map very boring.

If you can't change the actual layout of the map, but instead use XML to fix problems, the map will not improve in any feature but length.

[CoWinkKeyDinkInc]

A better solution may be to widen the front lines, and fill that split in the middle of the front lines that you can't cover up.

[Superjd10]

Lowering the maxbuild height (in the whole map or just in the frontline) and making the void gap bigger would help.

[Strangeys]

I honestly think the back wool rooms should be removed, and the back ring as well. It's already hard enough to make a defense, and I've never seen any point in single capping when nobody defends the back wool and then I could easily get to the last wool from the back with no players running my way.

[Tapetepato]

+1 Agree with all stuff said above, also, i have seen a high ammount of blockspam since once people get into enemy base they jjust painloop to the wools, look a the ammount of blockspam on this 6 minute match picture:

[Oo-TheFrog]

+1 I agree there is to much blockspam and its very hard to defend.

[Oo-TheFrog]

The ratings are now at 3.66 and most matches are under 10 minutes.

[ItzaMeLuigi]

I've been thinking of a way to update this map to make it easier to defend and less rushable, It was already mentioned that the build limit should be lowered. For the woolrooms, getting rid of the third one and replacing it with a void gap would make it a lot harder to get around. That would also mean getting rid of the third portal so players would use the two side portals to move around. To make the other two wools easier to defend, adding path to each wool room (instead of it being the length of the circle) would help. Lastly, we get too many blocks at spawn. I would say a stack of planks and half a stack of glass would be enough.

[Statcoman]

I also think that the woolroom supplies needs to be tuned down a bit.
Maybe get rid of the punch bow and have just power 1. Also give better
enchantments to the iron axe that players spawn with.

On Mon, Nov 2, 2015 at 1:25 PM, Luigi [email protected] wrote:

I've been thinking of a way to update this map to make it easier to defend
and less rushable, It was already mentioned that the build limit should be
lowered. For the woolrooms, getting rid of the third one and replacing it
with a void gap would make it a lot harder to get around. That would also
mean getting rid of the third portal so players would use the two side
portals to move around. To make the other two wools easier to defend,
adding path to each wool room (instead of it being the length of the
circle) would help. Lastly, we get too many blocks at spawn. I would say a
stack of planks and half a stack of glass would be enough.

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#327 (comment)
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