"exclusive mode" option missing?

[kendofriendo]

I can't seem to find the exclusive mode option anywhere. I'm using hidhide, and the only option I can find in the GUI for DS4Windows is "hide ds4" which we are told not to use with hidhide.

[Ryochan7]

That functionality is left to the HidHide Configuration Client that is installed with the driver. If the client is installed in a known standard place then DS4Windows will show a link for starting the client in the Settings tab; take note that DS4Windows and HidHide have to be installed on the same drive for the check to possibly find the client. Otherwise, you can find the HidHide Condiguration Client in the Windows Start menu.

[Yohoki]

As far as I've seen, there's no reason why you can't use HIDHide and Hide DS4 together. I use DS4Windows instead of a mouse on my setup, and have had no issues from having the two going at the same time. Feel free to use that legacy option until it gets removed.

HIDHide will block most apps from seeing your controller but not all of them. Having HIDHide on will almost guarantee that Exclusive mode works successfully, and that will block the few apps HIDHide can't block.

I'm pretty sure I had a bit of code to auto-add your controller to HIDHide's list if Hide DS4 was checked. Thought I pushed it with the Auto-profile addition a while back... I guess I never got around to pushing that to github, though. Guess I only have it enabled on my test build. I'll take a look at it sometime today or tomorrow and see about making a pull request for it in the next update. As far as I can tell, there's no reason not to have the Hide DS4 option also add it to HIDHide, if it's available.

[Masamune3210]

Shouldnt HidHide be able to block pretty much anything in userland at least from connecting to the controller, since it hides it before userland even gets to see the controller?

[Kanuan]

Shouldnt HidHide be able to block pretty much anything in userland at least from connecting to the controller, since it hides it before userland even gets to see the controller?

there are a few ways a rocess can still get direct access to the controller though I don't recall how.

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As far as I've seen, there's no reason why you can't use HIDHide and Hide DS4 together

On why I recommend not using hide ds4 controllers at the same time as HidHide, it's because if DS4Windows is running and the controller is in exclusive mode then the controller won't appear to the HidHide Client itself. It shouldn't result in a problem if you are aware of this fact but it's yet another layer of possible confusion to the average user

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I'm pretty sure I had a bit of code to auto-add your controller to HIDHide's list if Hide DS4 was checked.

I think it shouldn't be an automatic proccess. It should be a new column "HH" in the Controllers tab with a checkbox, and if when attempting to mark it a big red message should appear explaining what will happen, and with the "Accept" button in red and the "Don't hide" in green.

There are other minor details that should be addressed before this too, like:

• DS4Windows tries to add itself to HidHide whitelist but doesn't properly check if it has actually succeeded
  • There is an issue with HidHide in which apps trying to auto-add themselves to the whitelist will fail to do so if the user has never manually added anything to the whitelist before
• DS4Windows needs to check if the "inverse whitelist" is enabled and prevent adding the controller if it's the case
• We need an integrated "enable HidHide Device hiding" checkbox in the settings tab, and maybe a "wipe HH device list" too

I think that implementing integrated device hiding in DS4Windows also requires going the extra mile to make sure what is happening is dead-clear to the user. If we make the options present in the interface but without properly explaining what will happen, or things being automated only partially, then it is basically guaranteed there will be an influx of "Why my control not working anymore in steam? HELP!!!!"

Dumb issue tickets will still happen, but we try to minimize their existence

[Yohoki]

Shouldnt HidHide be able to block pretty much anything in userland at least from connecting to the controller, since it hides it before userland even gets to see the controller?

Not everything. Some "Windows" things are started by a system process, and Nefarius has said that they cause system instability if they aren't let through. Other things (Like the start menu and Control Panel, ect.) seem to find inputs regardless of if they're hidden. Nefarius speculates that an undocumented API is being used in those cases. Unless some one can find out the cause, HIDHide can't block them. Although I suspect that those will also never be blocked, because they're so heavily tied with the OS. I think we'd all rather have a stable program that rarely doesn't work.

On why I recommend not using hide ds4 controllers at the same time as HidHide, it's because if DS4Windows is running and the controller is in exclusive mode then the controller won't appear to the HidHide Client itself. It shouldn't result in a problem if you are aware of this fact but it's yet another layer of possible confusion to the average user

This is true. One reason why it would be beneficial to send the Controller through the API. D4W knows the serial, even if HIDHide cannot see it. It may cause an issue on the first connection, when the controller ISNT in the list, and D4W already has Exclusive access. We can probably get around that by re-adding the controller again in D4W. I'll have to test that a bit, because I DID notice that adding the serials automatically caused the KEY icon to not appear on first connect.

I think it shouldn't be an automatic proccess. It should be a new column "HH" in the Controllers tab with a checkbox, and if when attempting to mark it a big red message should appear explaining what will happen, and with the "Accept" button in red and the "Don't hide" in green.

I've tried the big annoying message box before, and it didn't seem to have any effect. In fact, quite the opposite, people complained to remove the annoying box! XD

But, as for a different checkbox, that can be arranged. I don't mind that at all.

* DS4Windows tries to add itself to HidHide whitelist but doesn't properly check if it has actually succeeded

I believe the Key icon won't show up if it's not successful. But I could be wrong. I've not actually checked what happens if it fails to add itself. It DOES have a check before it tries to add itself, I suppose I could pull that out and re-run it afterwards and throw a log warning if it tried and failed.

  * There is an issue with HidHide in which apps trying to auto-add themselves to the whitelist will fail to do so if the user has never manually added anything to the whitelist before

Sounds like a bug with HIDHide, not D4W. I will still make a PR with this in it, and if it has to sit and wait for a bugfix, then so be it. The functionality is there, regardless of the bug.

* DS4Windows needs to check if the "inverse whitelist" is enabled and prevent adding the controller if it's the case
* We need an integrated "enable HidHide Device hiding" checkbox in the settings tab, and maybe a "wipe HH device list" too

Fair enough. Those features shouldn't be hard to implement. I thought about the wipe button already. Since I use my DS4 on my PS4 as well, the HID changes often. Would we rather see a cluttered list, or wipe all and potentially clear OTHER controllers manually added? I think I'm leaning towards the wipe all as well.

I think that implementing integrated device hiding in DS4Windows also requires going the extra mile to make sure what is happening is dead-clear to the user. If we make the options present in the interface but without properly explaining what will happen, or things being automated only partially, then it is basically guaranteed there will be an influx of "Why my control not working anymore in steam? HELP!!!!"

Dumb issue tickets will still happen, but we try to minimize their existence

Lol. I think that last comment really hits it on the nail. I think no matter what we do to integrate, or not, HIDHide, it's going to cause issue tickets. I will pull up Visual Studio tonight and see about playing around with it. When I'm happy, I'll make a PR and we can have another chat and see what needs clarification and what needs more testing. Might be a day or two before I push anything, though. Takes me a while to code anything more than a Hello World.

I'm more than happy to work with everyone to make it simple to use, easy to understand, and hopefully bug-free. 🤞
I'll probably move the Hide button into a control box with the rest of those options, since they're all tied together.

[Kanuan]

Other things (Like the start menu and Control Panel, ect.) seem to find inputs regardless of if they're hidden.

At least on Windows 10 I can successfully hide the controller and not having anything windows related picking it. But I need to reconnect the controller for it to function as expected. Tested even with virtual controllers. Not sure if it's the same on Windows 11

I've tried the big annoying message box before, and it didn't seem to have any effect. In fact, quite the opposite, people complained to remove the annoying box! XD

It's just a question of trying to make it clear what is happening. If it's just something like "HidHide this device" with no confirmation then it will result in more confusion. By having a confirmation box with a simple message it should be enough for most users to understand what they are messing with at least.

Sounds like a bug with HIDHide, not D4W. I will still make a PR with this in it, and if it has to sit and wait for a bugfix, then so be it. The functionality is there, regardless of the bug.

It IS a bug with HidHide, but what happens is the following:

1. You check DS4Windows log and it says "adding itself to hidhide whitelist"
2. It fails to do so, but no warning on this appears
3. DS4Windows does not check again if it actually is in HidHide whitelist, then the user will wonder why their controller is not detected

I'll probably move the Hide button into a control box with the rest of those options, since they're all tied together.

Keeping it as a checkbox in the "Controllers" tab make hiding/un-hiding controllers a breeze.

I've though a lot about what would be the best way to implement this, just haven't had the time to do so. You can contact me in the vigem.org discord and I could better explain to you all the thing's I've thought of

[kendofriendo]

I removed both programs and my controller from the system, restarted, and re-added everything and it now works as expected with the key icon showing HidHide access.

Only thing is some programs like Forza Horizon 5 and Yuzu don't seem to recognize any controller unless I set it the emulation for x360 but it's no big deal.

[Kanuan]

They will ignore every DS4/DualSense controller in the system if they detect DS4Windows is running unless you Run DS4Windows under a custom ".exe" name

[kendofriendo]

Ahh I see thanks for the info. Sorry I missed that in the docs.