mateusbraga:luzcosta 1:1 sync

[mateusbraga]

I am creating this discussion to talk with luzcosta about opportunities for contributing. This originally came up in #237 .

Hi @luzcosta, my name is Mateus. I joined the Zettelkasten-Team very recently as I was also interested to collaborate. Instead of giving you a list of stuff that could be done (which I don't have heheh), I wanted to ask you some questions for me to get to know you better:

• Have you contributed to an open source project before?
• Do you already have in mind a type of contribution that you think would be nice to start?
• As an exercise to get some ideas around the previous question, what do you think could be improved in Zettelkasten itself, or in its website, that would help increase new users or keep existing users? You can think about what felt like a not-great experience for you.

[luzcosta]

Hi Matthew,

• I've never contributed to an open source project before.
• I initially thought that I might be useful in any translation question
  (to portuguese interface) and in any question about the operating logic of
  Luhmann's original zkn.
• I didn't think well and in an organized way about it, but I'll tell
  you what I think at the moment: a) improve the promotion/dissemination
  of zkn and its possibilities of use (two things that are connected, but
  that also have to be considered separately). It's not just used to
  manage what has been read or for research (which are my main purposes,
  for example). At the Federal University of Rio de Janeiro, in a center
  for violence studies, I implemented zkn to manage the library (data and
  search). I have three zkn: one for general scientific notes, another for
  German-Portuguese vocabulary management (because I worked with
  translation, now I just research and teach) and another for organizing
  notes for novels/fiction. There is a group here in Brazil that uses it
  as task management. b) make it easier for it to generate an index
  (besides the possibility of doing it with Schreibtisch - I think the
  translation for that there is "outliner"). That would be very helpful.
  Luhmann used an index (indexing the cards in groups that made sense for
  him to go on elaborating the structure of his books and articles). In
  other words, the entry of the cards was really as known, flexible and
  more in the form of a web, but he had this index that was already
  closing the structures he wanted. c) makes it possible to insert images
  more easily; but I know that would make the program heavier (and one of
  the big advantages is that it is light). d) make it possible to use it
  on a tablet, like the Scrivener program, for example, which is very good
  and works on all platforms. I know there's a problem with java, but
  anyway... I can't comment on this technical area. e) maintain the
  minimalist character, the intuitive and simple aesthetics and the speed
  of operations.

I imagine you have already thought about this last paragraph, but here
are my observations as requested.

[luzcosta]

Yes, I could contribute that way. But I work a lot, I'm a teacher and a researcher, so I don't have so much time to do this. They would have to be occasional contributions concerning determined questions.
About the index: it would be like a “contents” (Sumário) or index (índice) with themes and subthemes (as in a table of contents) and beside the page number, the numbers of the corresponding cards/Zetteln.

I'll try to attach some images that I took from Luhmann archive in Bielefeld (https://www.uni-bielefeld.de/fakultaeten/soziologie/forschung/luhmann-archiv/).

Se quiser, pode me ligar (73-991948509).

[luzcosta]

as I said before, this can be done in the Schreibtisch window (outliner). One could create a structure there and add the cards that I want in the place that I want. But it could be something more practical then the current Schreibtisch (outliner) , that doesn't take up too much space. One would create the titles and concepts in Schreibtisch and next to it there would only be the numbers of the corresponding cards and then, if possible, a field to write.

[mateusbraga]

You don't need to worry, I am not attempting to give you work you don't want to or can't do. I am giving you ideas of work that would help the project. Whether you want to take any of them, it is up to you.

Based on the images you sent, it looks like the existing Note Sequence view, where we have the titles and the existing hierarchy of notes. Do you know what I mean? How does your idea differs from that?

[luzcosta]

• Yes, I just talked about the time available to make it clear what I can do.
• First of all and the most important: this program is very good, I always praised it (before this new wave of people, like you, who fortunately want to keep the program active). Daniel Luedecke understood Luhmann's operating logic very well. So, I think that the most important thing is to keep the program working, even as it is (in terms of capabilities and aesthetics), just reducing errors and technically updating it.
• Yes, I know exactly what you're saying, “Folgezettel”. It's a good resource. But it doesn't start from a theme or concept that you create independently of a card. It starts from a card. And the visualization is not so good. I hardly use it. In this sense, for the index, the Schreibtisch would be better.
• I thought it was necessary for you to consider the different levels of use and understanding of the program. It is very different to use and understand (in practice) the program if you have 1000 cards or less or if you have 2000 cards or more. Very different needs and outcomes develop. Luhmann had over 70,000 cards and he used it for almost everything he wrote down. Daniel understood this and created a program for that long-lived and growing purpose. It is important to keep the emphasis on simplicity, lightness and on the main purpose of managing various notes, mainly for scientific purposes.

[mateusbraga]

You have a good point about different levels of use. I still didn't comprehend the new feature you have in mind. I think a nice way forward is to create a issue to both start discussion how this could look like, and for other users to start showing interest in the same functionality.

I think the same can be said about your (c) point. An issue is a good place to start getting into more detail in what would be easier.

(d) is already listed as #337. I think there are some exploratory work on this going on.

I think now we covered all the points. Based on your interest more in pointing out places to improve, my recommendation is to get familiar with the issues section of the project. Creating and commenting on them helps. In the process, you will probably work together with a volunteer developer. Sometimes an issue is ambiguous in the beginning and discussion helps identify what is wanted and how to better implement.

Have a good one!

[luzcosta]

I think there is a group that wants to see in zkn a reflection of Luhmann's annotation and annotation management method. And another that wants to manage notes, but doesn't necessarily want a very direct link with the Luhmann method. This can also be better defined by your group: what do you want to have from now on? I think that the copying of Luhmann’s method is one of the great attractions of the program. But must it still be an orientation? (my answer would be “yes”). I ask this because this answer can decide on your development.

Yes, I could explain some Luhmanns technique features. But, just to remember, the founder of Zkn, Daniel Luedecke, already offered some explanations on these question - I don't know where these explanations are now.

I don’t remember well how I started with the zkn. But I think it was in the context of searching for an alternative program to Synapsen (http://www.verzetteln.de/synapsen/about/), which is very nice, but not simple and minimalistic as zkn.

[luzcosta]

Hi, Matheus,
I need your help or from another person. Have you have a simple explanation of how to install zkn on Mac? A simple explanation, please. I tried a file, which I don't even know if it's the correct file anymore (in the past it was simple, the executor was there, it was just one). I'm one of the oldest users of zkn (still from the time when the purpose really had to do with Luhmann...), but now with communication via github it has become something else, for another group. I don’t really know even if I am in the right place here.

[luzcosta]

I tried the last release, but the Mac system don't allow that.

[RalfBarkow]

See "How To Install Java in Mac Sonoma 14.4.1" #493