Governance meeting held @ 3PM UTC in #general in the grincoin keybase team. Meeting lasted ~ 60 min.
Notes are truncated, and conversations sorted based on topic and not always chronological. Quotes are edited for brevity and clarity, and not always exact.
Community attendance:
- antiochp
- jaspervdm
- joltz
- kb1985
- kurt2
- lehnberg
- quentinlesceller
- tromp
- wnzzz
- yeastplume
(apologies if I missed someone - open a PR or contact @lehnberg to add)
Proposed agenda accepted.
None.
- lehnberg: There's a funding request: https://forum.grin.mw/t/request-for-funding-free-educational-book-about-blockchain/6951/. Great to see @kb1985 here ready to answer questions. Key paragraph of request:
so, currently I am about to release new and expanded version of the book, with couple of new sections added, one of them being 100% about mimblewimble and anonymity. I thought it would be cool, if grin could be the one to fund that batch. 100% funds would be spent on printing the book, there is no fixed amount of copies in a batch (so request for funding can be for 500 copies or 1000 copies or any number of copies), cost to print a copy is about 3-3,5 usd (depending on final size of the new edition). I am not going to lie, there is no additional incentive for grin in that, mimblewimble and grin will be one of the topics covered in the book anyway, no matter what the decision about funding would be, so please look at it not in the terms of profitability, cpc and other metrics, but simply a donation for educational cause. perhaps not the greatest pitch ever, but trying to be honest here.@kb1985 the book is in polish, correct?- kb1985: Correct. Blockchain is very hot topic here. We have more and more blockchain startups and some projects chose to have their central european headquarters here. But apart from the professionals, there are a lot of newcomers wanting to learn about the topic.
- lehnberg: How did you finance the first version of the book out of curiosity?
- tromp: I feel that grin funds, if used for publication materials, should be limited to english language. This book is of benefit to polish readers only and is best funded from polish sources.
- lehnberg: I tend to agree, and I'm not sure I would be in favour of supporting printing costs even if the books were in english. Supporting a writer to give their time to write the actual book, maybe.
- kb1985: Of course most will simply find the necessary stuff on the internet, which is best resource for everything. but language barrier is a thing for many people. This is why I thought, that it would be good idea to prepare something in polish. since my background is writing (I have successfully published couple of books before), I thought I will use both my experience with publishing market and contacts in crypto space to create small brochure to be given away on various meetups. And we used to have tons of them, every month there were at least 4-6 in my town alone. So I approached various projects for funding and created list of 5 initial projects. Actually 3 blockchain projects, one traditional financial institution and one angel investor.
- lehnberg: It's a nice idea for sure to write a book about these topics @kb1985, I can see why people would want to read more, especially if it's in a local language that might not have as much resources as available in english
- jaspervdm: I think its a great idea to write a book about crypto in languages besides english, so I applaud your effort! But personally I am not sure if it makes sense to spend grin funds on it.
- quentinlesceller: Yeah definitely a good idea. I agree with @jaspervdm I'm not sure if it makes a lot of sense for grin fund here though :/
- kb1985: Yeah, I am aware that the idea might be controversial. I also wasn't sure if it is good idea to pitch it here. My way of thinking was this: since in the new edition there will be some new sections, like privacy (with specifically mimblewimble explained), stablecoins etc. I thought it would be excellent to have at least part of the batch funded by grin, which is project I personally like. My logic here was that there is no specific amount needed - simply any amount donated would be spent 100% on the book, and when that money runs out simply another branded batch but different party would arrive. everything transparent of course.
- yeastplume: Unfortunately in this case, I think the benefit to grin is too vague. at least from my understandin the money in the grin fund was donated on the understanding that it would be used directly for grin's development... not necessarily 100% on dev work, but at least on activities that contribute tangibly toward grin. I'd also fear approving this would initiate a floodgate of similar proposals, which we wouldn't have reason to deny given we allowed this one.
- 👍: kurt2, tromp, lehnberg
- yeastplume: I do admit the types of activities the fund can be used for are a bit vague (and perhaps worth of an rfc)
- lehnberg: A somewhat common approach I've seen elsewhere is to "open source" the book, so that it is available freely online, and then let those who want a print version "buy" it, and therefore paying for the printing costs. maybe even using amazon print-on-demand services. Might also prevent you from printing too many copies and having to store them somewhere and so on. Is that something you considered?
- kb1985: Yeah, I was considering it. but the thing is that, that each bathch is branded by different brand. putting online book with one logo would make all the others no longer interested in sponsoring the new editions.
- lehnberg: That makes sense. I hope there are other projects with a bit more cash at hand that can see the benefits more immediately with supporting your project!
- kb1985: I know this is a bit tricky, because no matter if grin donations happens or not, I will definitely continue with my efforts of promoting grin here (I've organised or co-organised couple of meetups, as early as 1 year ago) etc. and the chapter about grin stay in the book anyway. So I really don't have leverage here. My way of thinking was "even small batch branded by grin would be cool".
- lehnberg: Totally get that and you're always welcome to submit proposals 👍
- yeastplume: Yes, sorry @kb1985 I really hope the book goes well and appreciate you including grin in it, but I just think it's too risky from a community stand point to allow something like this then start having to deny similar ones when they start appearing.
- kb1985: Totally understand your point.
- 🎉: quentinlesceller
- kb1985: Totally understand your point.
- kb1985: Companies that do the sponsorship now usually have something to gain here, they want their brand on the cover on the most popular blockchain book in the region, grin and any project described in the book does not need it, because it is in it anyway, but still, it just felt right for me to ask here before I proceed to the traditional methods of sponsorship.
- 👍: lehnberg, antiochp, yeastplume, quentinlesceller
- kb1985: Another thing I was thinking about, was to do kind of donation campaign in the community.
- 👍: joltz
- kb1985: And whatever is gathered spend on the grin-branded batch. And if not enough is gathered simply donate it to grin. That way we would not have precedence of taking any funds from the council's treasury, but be able to brand it as "book printed thanks to donations of grin community".
- lehnberg: I'd very much encourage you to do that @kb1985
- quentinlesceller: That a really nice idea too @kb1985
- kb1985: You might wonder why I am so focused on grin - this is because it is my favorite project since ethereum in 2014.
- 💘: lehnberg, quentinlesceller
- tromp: Did you try to advertise your book on bitcoin forum > local > polski at https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?board=142.0 yet?
- kb1985: @tromp thanks for the tip, but I guess there is no need to advertise it on bitcointalk. It is indeed extremely popular here. Almost everyone interested in crypto already knows about it, and it is in all main libraries and on main events. There is bunch of copies in maker's headquarters, even people from ethereum foundation and polkadot guys seem to know it. So actually the problem is opposite - what started as fun project started sucking so much time, that I can not manage it all single-handedly. :)
- tromp: Still, polish bitcointalk seems like the place to ask for helping hands
- kb1985: Maybe I am really bad when it comes to pitching and haven't stressed this enough in my initial topic, but the book was like introduction to the topic for so many people here. And it is insanely popular. Got even suggestion from 2 publishers to simply give it to them, but I want it to be available for free as long as possible. so I rather approach new companies / angel investors to donate new batches.
- kb1985: Anyway, the grin thing was like a last minute idea for me, based on including the topic to the new edition and me personally being fan and follower of the project.
- lehnberg: Once again, thank you for submitting the funding proposal @kb1985. Though there seems to be no consensus in support of spending from the general fund for this particular purpose, you are encouraged to ask for direct funding from the wider grin community. I wish you success with your project, and hope to see more of you here in grin! :)
- kb1985: I will try this now: Set up a community donation campaign, if we gather enough funds, I will print even small batch branded as funded by grin community, if not I will donate 100% to grin council.
-
lehnberg: I can confirm that I've been able to log into the grin.mw domain name account 🚀 But, there's some hassle still with authentication codes and what not, so we're not 100% there yet. Hoping to have all this sorted by the next gov meeting, and also by then have ensured more than one person has access to it.
- quentinlesceller: Still nice to see progress here !
- lehnberg: Getting there! thanks to the kind help by @0xb100d 👍.
-
lehnberg: Also: we managed to move the forum! 🤸♀️ The forum formerly known as
grin-forum.orgis now known as https://forum.grin.mw. We've seen a lot of help in the community updating posts and pages and material. Shout out to @hendi for updating all the wiki pages <3. @dolebas and @grundkurs have also been at it both with the forum and the website iirc. So kudos. -
lehnberg: And then @nijynot has been busy creating a keybase live feed widget from scratch for us! Example in action: https://nijynot.github.io/site/community. Will hopefully help with discoverability of the keybase channel. Expecting the widget to go live in a few days
- 👍: yeastplume, quentinlesceller
- lehnberg: I just noticed that I missed the moderation team action point for this meeting. 🤦 Will post something today. No progress there.
- lehnberg: @joltz has submitted a draft for a proposal to create a security subteam: mimblewimble/grin-rfcs#39 @joltz - anything you'd like to add at this point / anyone have any questions or thoughts about this?
- joltz: Just getting the idea out there and feedback on structure etc. not much to add besides please take a look and give feedback :)
- lehnberg: When will it be solid enough to move out of draft you think?
- joltz: The goal is to make the decision making process around security related decisions and initiatives easier and more clear. Barring any major feedback for changes any day now. just waiting for a bit more peer and self review before moving out of draft.
- 👍: lehnberg
- joltz: Chatting with bambam from zcash for his feedback as well
- lehnberg: Once out of draft, anyone here who'd like to shepherd it?
no reply
- lehnberg: In that I can do that then
-
lehnberg: @antiochp is working on the relative kernels rfc, updated the comments just now: mimblewimble/grin-rfcs#19 (comment)
-
lehnberg: And my own roadmap 2020 rfc has kind of stalled a bit: mimblewimble/grin-rfcs#38. It's lacking a shepherd, and it's lacking feedback. Is there anyone who has any kind of opinion on the contents?
- yeastplume: I do absolutely have an opinion on the contents. Would you like me to take on the shepherding of it?
- lehnberg: Yes please! But then be sure to separate yeast the opinonator and yeast the shepherd
- yeastplume: Okay, consider me shepherding
- 🐑: lehnberg, quentinlesceller
-
lehnberg: As I put it in mimblewimble#243 (comment):
I consider this an insignificant change that doesn't require an rfc, and if we are in favour, can simply update rfc#2.
I realized calling sub-teams sub teams puts hierarchy where there really doesn't need to be one. Besides I never know how to spell subteams. sub teams? sub-teams? So can we just call everything teams from now on? it's more... minimal. 🤩
- yeastplume: Yeah, think that makes sense
- tromp: Grin is all about stripping away the unnecesaries...
- 💇: lehnberg
-
jaspervdm: I always thought it was the "grin team". Meaning everything in grin, then there are subteams which only govern only a subset :) but I don't care that much, so fine with changing it.
- lehnberg: That would makes a lot of sense. But the core team is not called the core subteam, so that's a logic flaw in that case that we introduced.
- lehnberg: Any fierce opponents to expelling the use of sub?
no reply
- lehnberg: Carried.
None.
Meeting adjourned.