Development meeting held @ 3PM UTC in grincoin#general channel on Keybase. Meeting lasted ~ 50 min.
Notes are truncated, and conversations sorted based on topic and not always chronological. Quotes are edited for brevity and clarity, and not always exact.
Community attendance:
- antiochp
- anynomous
- bladedoyle
- cekickafa
- dburkett
- defistaker
- dtavarez
- geneferneau
- goyle
- hendi
- joltz
- lehnberg
- mcmmike
- mo5itoo
- phyro
- quentinlesceller
- renzokuken
- smokeking80
- trevyn
- vegycslol
(apologies if I missed someone - submit a PR or contact @lehnberg to add)
The proposed agenda was reviewed and accepted without any changes.
- lehnberg: We're finally up to speed on financial reports. It took me a while and I almost went slightly mad but there's a small discrepancy happening sometime in Q4 2019 or earlier that caused numbers not to add up. Details here, mimblewimble#402 Roughly USD 125 at the time. antioch has been paid, but I've not yet update the log for that I just recalled, so need to do that. And Q1 2021 report will be due in April.
- antiochp: Thanks for doing those @lehnberg
3. @ndcroos ledger bounty
- cekickafa: It looks like he can do the job.but you are the experts.
- mcmmike: I really like the idea of bounties and if someone can evaluate the developer I would say lets do it.
- 👍: renzokuken, anynomous
- quentinlesceller: Regarding ledger Bounty I think we should lock the bounty for markholis. He seems serious and motivated.
- 👍: phyro, antiochp, cekickafa, joltz, mo5itoo, dburkett, mo5itoo, hendi, goyle, lehnberg, vegycslol, mcmmike
- anynomous: Good, should the bounty be split in sub tasks?
- phyro: Also seems honest so far
- mo5itoo: He's also very active in the community i can say
- dtavarez: It would be nice to see some code though
- quentinlesceller: I think the purpose of the bounty is that mark managed as he pleased and he'll paid based on the deliverables given.
- lehnberg: Where is that?
- quentinlesceller: We should lock the bounty for X months if it's not done we unlock it.
- 👍: anynomous, phyro
- mo5itoo: On telegram @lehnberg
- lehnberg: Ah nice
- quentinlesceller: Very little risk for us @dtavarez
- lehnberg: Yeah so wasn't aware we'd do locking, but I suppose that's fair? I really don't mind either way - just not familiar with how things are done here usually?
- lehnberg: The concern without locking is that there's duplication of effort?
- 👍: quentinlesceller
- phyro: Also competition and shipping fast to deliver first which should probably not be encouraged
- 👍: vegycslol
- quentinlesceller: I mention assigning in the forum post sorry if that wasn't clear.
- bladedoyle: Will we add any more bounty projects? Is there a list?
- antiochp: We'll probably end up learning as we go here as well - maybe he needs more people involved, maybe others have good ideas etc.
- lehnberg: cool sounds good, so what's a fair time to lock it for then?
- quentinlesceller: Feel free to suggest some more
- 👍: bladedoyle
- lehnberg: Does it come with some expectation of a progress update?
- quentinlesceller: 6 months ?
- phyro: My question would be how would we get this reviewed. It's definitely something that would need a deep review in the end.
- geneferneau: I would like to suggest a bounty project, is now the right time?
- mo5itoo: I think i he should first give an estimation for the work first, and keep the community updated once a week or something and get paid once he's done.
- lehnberg: Like if we lock for six months, it's not great if someone gives up and then we only realize it's not happening in six months
- 💯: cekickafa
- dburkett: Nah, too long. We should at least evaluate after a month or 2
- anynomous: Maybe it would be good to include at least an adviser who has more experience.
- mo5itoo: 6 months is too much
- quentinlesceller: 6 months to do the full ledger support?
- dtavarez: he could join keybase and ask freely
- dburkett: He's welcome to take 6 months or more, but we should keep checking in to make sure there's steady progress.
- 👍: mo5itoo
- lehnberg: yeah so if we "evaluate the lock" 2 in months than that's cool
- 👍: anynomous
- bladedoyle: I think shorts lock time but maybe extended if progress is shown?
- 👍: dburkett
- anynomous: 6 months is ok, but can be reconsidered after 2 or 3 months if there is no progress or any reason for concern
- lehnberg: "status check re the lock in 2 months to see how you're getting on"
- quentinlesceller: I'd say evaluate the lock in 2 months yes. ok
- 👍: cekickafa, bladedoyle
- lehnberg: Or why not even do a monthly check in? is that really that bad? not like a report. Just ask "hey how are things going". Proof of life, that kind of thing
- 👍: antiochp, phyro
- antiochp: no I think interim checkins should be encouraged
- cekickafa: Monthly check is cool
- antiochp: at least informally
- quentinlesceller: For sure. That'd be great.
- cekickafa: monthly update
- lehnberg: so: lock for now → monthly check in on the forum post?
- 👍: antiochp, anynomous, dtavarez, phyro, cekickafa, joltz
- quentinlesceller: yes
- lehnberg: if awol, we unlock again
- 👍: quentinlesceller
- mo5itoo: can he start by giving an estimation ?
- bladedoyle: Estimates are hard.
- 👍: renzokuken
- quentinlesceller: I mean the purpose of the bounty is flexibility. It is you either deliver and get paid or not.
- 👍: mo5itoo
- anynomous: Ok, although I guess there are checkpoins for the bounty, like finishing sub tasks?
- renzokuken: How about an agile / scrum kind of approach? smaller deliveries but more often and each of them needs to bring value ( to the community instead of to the company ) That would be evaluation more often, say every 2 week-long sprint.
- 👍: mcmmike
- vegycslol: I don't think putting pressure on him is good
- bladedoyle: Nobody wants to be a scrum master 😩
- dtavarez: Who is going to be the scrum master?
- renzokuken: Btw who are we talking about? I though we discuss general approach and not a particular individual, sorry
- antiochp: I think the person undertaking the bounty should be free to propose something along those lines - but it would be up to them
- 👍: vegycslol, phyro, dtavarez, cekickafa
- quentinlesceller: Indeed
- antiochp: We are open to different approaches. and flexible
- hendi: Exactly. If he has issues with "50k once done" he's free to propose checkpoints
- 👍: antiochp, vegycslol, bladedoyle, phyro, mcmmike
- quentinlesceller: yes
- antiochp: lets not overthink this
- 👍: quentinlesceller, hendi
- goyle: I think the Ledger bounty feels less like a bounty and more of a regular funding request since its such a big undertaking
- joltz: The difference is with former payment is made after work done, latter payment made before work done
- 👍: goyle
- goyle: it's like a bounty request for another GUI wallet
- cekickafa: fund split and new members added.thats all.rest is details:smile:
- dburkett: Also, it allows those who maybe haven't had a chance to prove themselves yet to get funded without risk to the council money.
- 👍: vegycslol, phyro, goyle
- lehnberg: So far there's been four volunteers for signers: anynomous, davidtavarez, hendi, mcm-mike. there's two weeks left of march, and we said in april we'll review the list of volunteers. Anything we need to do at this point in time?
- antiochp: if anybody else is thinking of volunteering then please do so
- mcmmike: I just wanted to let everyone know, if you have any questions about me ask me on the forum post , here or in private if needed.
- 👍: quentinlesceller, renzokuken, defistaker, cekickafa, mo5itoo
- anynomous: Same here, and if anyone has a problem with me being anynomous (although I Doxed myself many times), let me know.
- 👍: renzokuken, mcmmike, cekickafa, mo5itoo, defistaker
- dtavarez: same here
- 👍: renzokuken, cekickafa, mcmmike, mo5itoo, defistaker
- anynomous: How many candidates are we looking for, the more the merrier?
- lehnberg: Yes. If there's anything else to discuss on this, remember that there's #community_fund to raise questions and ideas in.
- hendi: we should try to get more than us 4, otherwise voting makes hardly sense
- anynomous: Yes, 5 would be ideal, at least an uneven number
- cekickafa: i would like to be volunteer as a voting,but i dont like to be involved in mulitisig stuff
- mcmmike: are we looking for 3 or 4 signers?
- phyro: I think 5 is a good number
- 👍: anynomous
- cekickafa: then you be the 5th
- vegycslol: 4 of 6 seems fine
- 👍: phyro
- anynomous: Should the grin council maybe have some backup signatures, e.g. 4 out of 8 (2 from the Grin council)?
- hendi: yes. depends on the splitting though. The council should definitely be able to help out if 1 or 2 sigs are missing
- mcmmike: in total we will have 6 signers where 4 from the community and 2 from council , was this the original proposal? ( I need to look it up)
- phyro: agree, also solves the 2 going missing
- hendi: "4 of 6, 2 for council" sounds good to me
- 👍: phyro, anynomous
- vegycslol: Is that a 4 of 8?
- hendi: that's 4 of 6 (4+2). (for the current situation where we have just 4 volunteers)
- vegycslol: But since council members don't vote, how do you vote with 4?
- hendi: you don't, we need more volunteers for that. though voting is separate from multisig
- antiochp: I'd keep the multisig as a detail to be worked out later
- 👍: hendi
- anynomous: Yes, I also do not mind not having one of the signatures as long as there are enough members who hold one
- hendi: ^ my point here was the volunteers should be "voted in" by the broader community, (not the fact that we need more than 4 or an odd number)
- 👍: antiochp
- mcmmike: but at the end the council will decide , we can only offer our help at the moment. Also I do see the need for more peolple volunteering.
- anynomous: Based on my experience an uneven number works better, so I hope some more candidates step up.
- hendi: @lehnberg already mentioned the call for volunteers in his newsletter. Maybe we can get some more outreach, Twitter, Telegram channel?
- lehnberg: With four signers, I don't see how we could give a lot of funds to such a group. 3 of 5 would be minimum imo. And ideally, if we're to pick 5, we'd have a bigger pool than just 5 to pick from haha
- 👍: anynomous
- 😄: phyro
- anynomous: @cekickafa said he/she was interested right?
- lehnberg: so please, do whatever you can to shake out more applicants from the trees
- cekickafa: i volunteer voting. but phyro wants 5th multisig better
- vegycslol: I was hoping for at least 4 needed "yes" votes :)
- hendi: @cekickafa can you please post your application on the forum?
- cekickafa: ok
- anynomous: In any case, I think it would be best not to give a lot of funds, simply allocate money and transfer a buffer to begin with
- 👍: hendi
None.
None.
Meeting adjourned.