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审校《计算机网络时代的版权与社区之争》 #312

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Hagb opened this issue Jan 9, 2020 · 17 comments
Open

审校《计算机网络时代的版权与社区之争》 #312

Hagb opened this issue Jan 9, 2020 · 17 comments

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@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 9, 2020

1

His ideas about software freedom and free access to information were used by Tim Berners-Lee when he created the world’s first web server,...
他关于软件自由以及信息应当可自由获取的理念被 Tim Berners-Lee 用于创建世界上第一台 网络服务器 ,……

我认为这里“web server”应该是特指“网页服务器”。

2

I’ve been in New Zealand for a couple of weeks,...
我来到新西兰已有 两周 时间,……

“a couple of”似乎不一定是“两周”,而可能指“两三周”。

3

The result was that copies of any particular book were made in a decentralized manner.
其结果是任何一本书的副本都是以一种去中心化的方式创作的。

我认为这里对副本的动作,说成“制作”比“创作”更合适。

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Jan 9, 2020

  1. 这俩翻译我认为都可以,不过“网页服务器”更精准。

  2. 根据 https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/a%20couple%20of ,a couple of 表示 two (things) or a few (things),我认为在这里最精准的翻译是“个把周”(毕竟是演讲,加入了一点口语化成分)

  3. 副本也是“作品”,因此用动词创作来形容作品是合适的,我认为用“制作”会略有点不适合。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 10, 2020

“制作”也可以是动词。主要是“创作”似乎有那种“原创”那样的意思,用于单纯的复制似乎不太合适。

创作
①创造文艺作品:~经验。
②指文艺作品:划时代的~。

(来自我在 StarDict 作者胡正的页面找到的 GPL 授权下的现代汉语词典电子版 http://download.huzheng.org/zh_CN/stardict-xiandaihanyucidian-2.4.2.tar.bz2 。顺便问问中文电子辞书有什么推荐?)

@tonghuix
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如果对 make/made 意译呢?副本可以用“产生”来说。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 12, 2020

如果对 make/made 意译呢?副本可以用“产生”来说。

我觉得这个可以。

@IFRFSX
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IFRFSX commented Jan 14, 2020

我提议将web server翻译成“网站服务器”,因为网页通常不是孤立使用的,而是好多个网页配合在一起来使用,这才是html最常见的用法。更何况现在没几个网站会纯粹地使用网页,里面还有CSS样式表,js代码,图片,视频等元素。

其次:

The result was that copies of any particular book were made in a decentralized manner.

机翻结果如下:

结果,任何一本书的拷贝都是以分散的方式进行的。

我建议将其润色修正为:

其结果是任何一本书的副本都是以去中心化的方式制作的。

我同意Hagb的翻译,使用“制作”一词。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 26, 2020

我认为“web server”翻译成“网站服务器”也行

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 27, 2020

4

That went on for thousands of years, but then there was a big advance in copying technology, namely the printing press. The printing press made copying more efficient, but not uniformly . [This was] because mass production copying became a lot more efficient, but making one copy at a time didn't benefit from the printing press. In fact, you were better off just writing it by hand; that would be faster than trying to print one copy.
这种情况持续了数千年,然而,此后复制技术发生了巨大进步,这称为印刷机。印刷机使得复制过程更有效率,但这并不具有一致性。由于批量复制的效率得到巨大提升,但每次仅仅印制一份副本并不会由于印刷机的存在而变得高效。事实上,您最好还是自己进行手抄,这将会比用印刷机印制一份副本更快。

这里的“uniformly”我不是很理解是什么意思。此处存疑。

5

Now in the early centuries of printing, and still I believe in the 1790s, lots of readers wrote copies by hand because they couldn't afford printed copies. Nobody ever expected copyright law to be something other than an industrial regulation. It wasn't meant to stop people from writing copies, it was meant to regulate the publishers. Because of this it was easy to enforce, uncontroversial, and arguably beneficial for society.
在印刷时代的最初几个世纪,我相信直到 18 世纪 90 年代还是这样,大部分读者仍然采用手抄方式进行复制,由于他们买不起印刷的副本。从未有人期望版权法变成行业规范以外的东西,它的本意是约束出版商。正因为此,它容易被强制执行、不会引起争议、并且可以认为是对社会有益的。

此处译文好像漏了一句。我认为可以把“从未有人期望版权法变成行业规范以外的东西,它的本意是约束出版商。”中间插一句,变为“从未有人期望版权法变成行业规范以外的东西。它不会阻止人们抄写副本,它的本意是约束出版商。”

6

It was uncontroversial because, as the readers were not restricted, they had nothing to complain about.
它不会引起争议,由于读者并未被限制,他们无需担心什么。

我认为这里“complain”译为“抱怨”更合乎原意。(即全句译为“它不会引起争议,由于读者并未被限制,他们无需抱怨什么。”)

7

So if this were still in the age of the printing press, I don’t think I’d be complaining about copyright law. But the age of the printing press is gradually giving way to the age of the computer networks—another advance in copying technology that makes copying more efficient, and once again not uniformly so.
因此,如果现在仍然处在印刷机时代,我想我不会抱怨版权法。但是,印刷机时代正在逐步让位于计算机网络时代——复制技术的另一次革命,它使得复制更加高效,同时也更加不那么具有一致性

此处“uniformly”我也不是很理解。存疑。(这个似乎是和上面第 4 点类似的)

8

It would reduce copyright power. It would say: “The trade we made on behalf of our citizens, trading away some of their freedom which now they need, is intolerable. We have to change this; we can't trade away the freedom that is important.” We can measure the sickness of democracy by the tendency of governments to do the exact opposite around the world, extending copyright power when they should reduce it .
它应当减少版权权力。它应当说:“我们在以公民之名进行的交易中出让的那部分自由是现在他们所需要的,这是不可容忍的。我们必须改变这一切;我们不能轻易出让这种至关重要的自由。”我们可以如此衡量民主的欠缺 ,通过考察世界各国政府做出与民主背道而驰的事情的倾向性,即它们在本应减少版权权力的时候反而不断延伸版权权力

我认为加粗部分中的“the exact opposite”指的是与“ We have to change this; we can't trade away the freedom that is important.”相反的事情。

译文中此处之后是“即它们在本应减少版权权力的时候反而不断延伸版权权力”,而“the exact opposite”如果译为“与民主背道而驰的事情”,又会比“在本应减少版权权力的时候反而不断延伸版权权力”更加宽泛。

我认为把加粗一部分译为“:考察世界各国政府有多倾向于做出与此背道而驰的事情,在本应减少版权权力的时候反而不断延伸版权权力。”会更加符合原意和通顺。

@tonghuix
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5,这里确实少译了一句,你的补译很贴切。

6,译成“抱怨”是合适的,原来说“担心”也并无不妥,虽然“担心”有点意译的成分

8,我同意你的理解。这里的“the exact opposite”的意义外延太宽泛也确实不妥。

4和7放一起说,uniformly的英文解释是 identical or consistent, as from example to example, place to place, or moment to moment 或者 without variations in detail。 因此翻译成“一致性”我倒觉得还能凑合。这里我认为表达的意思是印刷机在印刷的时候与母板有那么一点点不同,比如印刷纸张、油墨和操作排版的原因?8的说法是在网络时代复制很容易,同样改动也很容易,这就导致复制并修改会变得与原版相差甚远。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 28, 2020

4 那处

The printing press made copying more efficient, but not uniformly . [This was] because mass production copying became a lot more efficient, but making one copy at a time didn't benefit from the printing press.

我的理解是,“[This was] because …”用于说明为什么“not uniformly”,如果这样理解的话,“uniformly”理解为“印刷时和母板的不一致”在逻辑上好像不太说得通。

@tonghuix
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我突然觉得uniformly是不是表示与“书写原版”这个过程不一致?书写原版过程中付出的劳动与印刷机印刷产生的劳动是不一致的。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Jan 28, 2020

我突然觉得uniformly是不是表示与“书写原版”这个过程不一致?书写原版过程中付出的劳动与印刷机印刷产生的劳动是不一致的。

emmm…… 这么理解的话,后面“[This was] because mass production copying became a lot more efficient, but making one copy at a time didn't benefit from the printing press.”好像还是不那么说得通。

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Jan 28, 2020

说的通啊,付出的劳动,为了这个劳动要支付成本,我在想他是这么考虑的。大规模印刷的效率是提高了,每一个副本来说上面凝结的劳动成本虽然大幅降低了,但是印刷机也没有因为这点付出的劳动成本而获益。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 7, 2020

9

In the age of the printing press, copyright wasn't supposed to cover all uses of a copyrighted work , because copyright regulated certain uses that were the exceptions in a broader space of unregulated uses.
在印刷机时代,版权不应覆盖一篇作品的所有应用场景 由于版权所管制的某些应用同时也是一系列更宽泛的未受管制的应用中的一些例外。

此处译文中间的句号我认为应为逗号。

10

有一处 fsfs3 和 gnu.org 网页的差异(这个差异存在于所有时间的网页版本中,也就是说不是网页更新时产生的):gnu.org 中 比 fsfs3 多一句话。

gnu.org:

The AACS conspiracy makes precise rules about all players. For instance, in 2011 it's going to be forbidden to make analog video outputs. So all video outputs will have to be digital, and they will carry the signal encrypted into a monitor specially designed to keep secrets from the user. That is malicious hardware. They say that the purpose of this is to “close the analog hole”. I'll show you a couple of analog holes (Stallman takes off his glasses): here's one and here's another, that they'd like to poke out permanently.

fsfs3:

The AACS conspiracy makes precise rules about all players. For instance, in 2011 it's going to be forbidden to make analog video outputs. So all video outputs will have to be digital, and they will carry the signal encrypted into a monitor specially designed to keep secrets from the user. That is malicious hardware. They say that the purpose of this is to “close the analog hole.”[Stallman takes off his glasses.] Here’s one and here’s another, that they’d like to poke out permanently.

此处该怎么处理?

11

But these companies are quite confident that our governments are on their side against us.
但是,那些公司信心满满,由于政府站在它们那边共同压制我们。

我觉得这里是指“那些公司确信(或者说有信心),政府站在它们那边共同压制我们”,而非“政府站在它们那边共同压制我们是它们自信的原因。”

12

For instance, it modified the command you could use to examine the system to see if the software was present, so as to disguise itself.
例如,它修改了您可用于查看系统状态以获知某个软件是否存在的命令,因此它隐藏了自己的存在。

我认为这里“so as to”应该是表目的(见 https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/so_as_to)。我认为可以将“so as to disguise itself”译为“以便隐藏自己”。

13

Now the GNU GPL is a copyleft license, and that means it says “Yes, …
现在, GNU GPL 是一种左版(copyleft)许可证,这如同说:“是的,……

我认为这里的“now”不是表示“现在”,而是这个含义(https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/now#Adverb):

Adverb

  1. (sentence) Used to introduce a point, a remonstration or a rebuke.

Now, we all want what is best for our children.

Now stop that, Jimmy!

  • 1898, Winston Churchill, chapter 3, in The Celebrity:

Now all this was very fine, but not at all in keeping with the Celebrity's character as I had come to conceive it. The idea that adulation ever cloyed on him was ludicrous in itself. In fact I thought the whole story fishy, and came very near to saying so.

我认为这个“Now”翻译成“注意”更符合原意。

14

They focused their condemnation not on the evil purpose of this scheme, but only on the secondary evils of the various methods that Sony used.
他们并未将谴责集中于这一阴谋的邪恶目的之上,而是仅仅局限于索尼将其次要罪恶付诸实现的不同方法上。

我认为此处不是局限于“索尼将次要罪恶付诸实现的不同方法”,而是局限于“次要罪恶”,而这个“次要罪恶”就是指“将前面提到的 evil purpose of this scheme 付诸实现的不同的方法”的罪恶。

我认为(逗号后部分)可以稍微译为“而是仅仅局限于其次要的邪恶——索尼那些非一般的方式”

15

You see, the publishers want to take away the traditional freedoms of book readers…
您应该看到了,出版商想要剥夺读者的传统阅读自由……

我想这里用祈使句“你看”会不会更合原意?

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Feb 8, 2020

9,确实应为逗号。

10,分开处理如何?书里的遵从愿文,网站的就按网站的翻译。

11,confident这个词有形容词词性,that后面的从句是修饰解释confident的。所以我觉得原翻译还是靠谱的。

12,原译这里其实有点意译,我认为可不改。当初第一遍校对的时候我也注意到这里了,不过并没有改动。

13,Now其实是个很口语的词,老美常这么说。原译“现在”是可以的,如果是我可能会换成口语一点的“现如今”。不过还是倾向于不改原译了吧。

14,愿译是有点语句不通。我译为“而是仅仅(将谴责)局限于索尼用各种方式实现其罪恶目的而产生的次生罪恶上”

15,译文全文都是“您”,这里不改最好。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 8, 2020

10,分开处理如何?书里的遵从愿文,网站的就按网站的翻译。

我觉得可以

11,confident这个词有形容词词性,that后面的从句是修饰解释confident的。所以我觉得原翻译还是靠谱的。

这里我也是这么想的,但是我又想,原文中 confident 和那个从句的逻辑关系是什么。

我觉得原文中这个从句不是 confident 的原因,而是它们所相信的那个东西。

换句话说,是“政府站在它们那边所以它们自信”,还是“它们相信政府站在它们这边”?前一句话中是蕴含了“政府站在它们那边”,后一句话中仅仅是表达它们相信(be confident) 。

(虽然感觉这里翻译成哪种对读者理解影响都不太大。)

12,原译这里其实有点意译,我认为可不改。当初第一遍校对的时候我也注意到这里了,不过并没有改动。

这里我感觉问题和 11 差不多,但是此处原文的逻辑关系更加明确。

虽然从事实上看,它也确实是达到目的了。

13,Now其实是个很口语的词,老美常这么说。原译“现在”是可以的,如果是我可能会换成口语一点的“现如今”。不过还是倾向于不改原译了吧。

这里我主要考虑到,GNU GPL 在演讲前很长一段时间就是 copyleft,如果译为“现在”,是不是有可能引起误解。

14,愿译是有点语句不通。我译为“而是仅仅(将谴责)局限于索尼用各种方式实现其罪恶目的而产生的次生罪恶上”

我觉得这个可以。

15,译文全文都是“您”,这里不改最好。

我的错误。那“您看”如何?这里主要是考虑到,原文好象是一个祈使句。

@tonghuix
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tonghuix commented Feb 8, 2020

11我还是觉得原译靠谱。

13这就是Now这个词太口语导致的麻烦,从语境和演讲口语化的角度来看,这里的意思是“我们继续回到现在讲GNU GPL这个话题”,然而翻译的话我突然也想不出啥合适的表达

15,You see也是个很口语的表达,也是很难翻译成中文的,结合语境咋翻都可以。他原译也可以。

@Hagb
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Hagb commented Feb 11, 2020

2 我仔细看了一下 wiktionary,发现:(https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/couple#Usage_notes

  • A traditional and still broadly accepted usage of couple is as a noun followed by "of" to mean "two", as in "a couple of people". In this usage, "a couple of" is equivalent to "a pair of".
  • The very widespread use of the same expression (e.g. "a couple of people") to mean any small number is often considered informal but is in fact very old and often considered unobjectionable on all levels of style, sometimes even contradictorily by the same publication that labels this use as informal elsewhere on the same page, e.g. the American Heritage Dictionary.[1]

The farm is a couple of miles off the main highway [= a few miles away].
We’re going out to a restaurant with a couple of friends [= a few friends].
Wait a couple of minutes [= a few minutes].

我现在不知道这里该译作什么了…… 我去翻了一下 RMS 和 FSF 的页面,想找到行程记录一类的。没找到。

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