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Hi, Thank you @joaomlourenco for creating this template! I recently submitted my PhD thesis, which I had typset using the Novathesis template (version 6.4.7), and UMinho did not accept it due to the following: “Devolução do processo pois não está conforme o Despacho RT-31/2019. Ponto 16. ".... fonte NewsGotT e uma dimensão de 12 para a letra de texto ..." - a dimensão da tese está com a dimensão de 11,96.” It seems that the definition of 1 pt in LaTeX is different from the standard used in Postscript/Word/etc. LaTeX calls the Postscript standard “big point” (bp). I tried to fix this by changing the memoir setup to 12 bp instead of 12 pt in the 0_memoir.tex file and also in the univ-defaults.ldf file, but this didn’t work and it resulted in a file with an even smaller font size (I’m assuming it used the default fontsize for memoir instead). Is there any way I could change the novathesis.cls to use bp instead of pt/to convert between the two? Thanks. |
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Replies: 8 comments 31 replies
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@dlrsb I'm not sure if we should be happy or cry with your message. Cry because 11.96 vs 12.00 is absolutely imperceptible by any terms except detailed analysis of the PDF internals, and they rejected the submission based on this claim. But, on the on the hand, we may be really happy, as it seems that is the only issue remaining to be solved. :) I found the solution, but I'm not sure how to make it work for you, depends on which precise version (commit) you are using, but try adding one(-by-one) of the following to your "Config/5_packages.tex": \AtBeginDocument{\@setfontsize\normalsize{12bp}{14.5bp}}
\AtBeginDocument{\makeatletter\@setfontsize\normalsize{12bp}{14.5bp}}
\AtBeginDocument{@setfontsize\normalsize{12bp}{14.5bp}\makeatother}
\AtBeginDocument{\makeatletter\@setfontsize\normalsize{12bp}{14.5bp}\makeatother}I believe one of the above should work. Please let me know that it really worked for you. I have added the fix to the uminho configuration file. Newer versions will be ok. :) |
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Thank you for the quick reply! Unfortunately, I tested the commands one-by-one and none of them worked for the version I'm using (Version 2021-06-19 [6.4.7], I don't have information on the specific commit). I did modify the template slightly to eliminate the covers that were being generated and to include my own, but I wouldn't expect this to affect the behavior of the commands you suggested. LaTeX now throws the following errors: I also noticed these warnings: My thesis has two equation environments and a few inline equations, but I don't use the \normalsize command within math mode... I wonder if fontsize needs to be redefined specifically for math mode as well? I can just try use the most recent version of the template instead and see if it works... |
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It works in the template. BTW, why did you replace the covers?
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Ok, I'm going to try using the latest version and I'll let you know if it works. I replaced the covers because the template version I had been using was affected by this issue #254, which I only became aware of shortly before the deadline. Since I also needed to include funder logos, it was easier for me to just edit UMinho's official template for the covers & spine and comment out the lines in univ_defaults.ldf that generated the covers. If I remember correctly, this also fixed an issue with the page numbering, since the copyright page is supposed to be page ii and before my changes I think it was page iv. |
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You could use this https://github.com/b-pereira/UMINHO-PHD-MSc-Covers/releases. For the time being, the two main documents are standalone. The cover and back cover verses can be created with the given instructions. Given that you followed my instruction in #254 this is for a follow-up by other people. That nitpicking is not consistent within UMINHO Schools and that's appalling. There are a number of "issues" with the template if they want to commit to Adobe and text processors standards. For instance, measure the line space between the text baselines. I don't know if this template defined 1.5 or it is using \onehalfspacing - in LaTeX, for 12pt that factor is 1.241 and not 1.5 and relative to the font size and baseline Why is the line spread factor as it is?. This is sad because we use LaTeX because of LaTeX's typographical quality. Everything was measured within the packages and classes to be precise and have good typographical quality. |
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@joaomlourenco, what tool did you use to get the font measurements shown in the figure? I compiled the template (downloaded today, from master. uminho-defaults.ldf has the patch) without changing anything besides 1_novathesis.tex and asked someone who has access to Adobe Acrobat Professional to tell me the font size... and they said it's 11.96 pt. I can't understand why...
The only section where Adobe says the font is 12 pt is the Copyright section:
I extracted text from the PDF with the corresponding font sizes using the pdfminer package in Python and I get the same values - 12 pt in the Copyright text, and 11.95519999999999 pt elsewhere, including the "Lorem ipsum dolor" part |
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This is much unexpected. At least, one PhD thesis with the LaTeX 12pt font size was already accepted. What is your school? |
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Yes, it is. Tough luck, someone had the Adobe Professional, Adobe InDesign or Adobe Illustrator installed to check that 0.4 pt difference in the Scientific Council. Look, I used at least 2 PDF Editors - Libre Office and PDF X-Change Editor - in both the font size was 12pt. However, in Inkscape the font size was 11.955pt. PDF X-Change Editor
Inkscape
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@b-pereira I confirmed that the copyright section is also 12 pt in Inkscape, unlike the rest of the text... so it seems to me that the patch works for that section and not the rest?? |
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Em bom Português, o argumento do CC da EEUM não é contra o tamanho da fonte, mas um argumento contra o uso do LaTeX. A Escola de Engenharia, acima de todas, deveria reconhecer que artigos científicos da IEEE (o padrão de facto) são escritos tanto no Word como em LaTeX. Aliás, a imagem abaixo é de um template para um paper feito com gerador do site para LaTeX para artigos na tua área com as guidelines do IEEE. A norma da IEEE define 10, 11 ou 12pt. O tamanho da fonte por defeito é 10pt. No entanto, como usa TeX points então não é 10 pt, mas 9.9626 pt. Já tentei argumentar com o CC sobre outras coisas, recebendo uma resposta seca ou nenhuma. Portanto, quem te fez esta rasteira é míope. Não há mais nada a dizer.
Basicamente, o que o CC da UM está a dizer é para usar Word ou Adobe InDesign e não LaTeX. Quem te avaliou a tese é de uma miopia gritante, quando nas áreas STEM o LaTeX é amplamente usado. Tão usado que a Springer e a IEEE têm classes em LaTeX para o efeito.
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@dlrsb deixa ver o que o @joaomlourenco te diz sobre isso. No entanto, podes tentar argumentar que a tua tese é feita em LaTeX, logo usa TeX points definido por Donald Knuth e mudar isso não é trivial. Podes mostrar que os artigos da IEEE usam TeX points mesmo quando eles definem pontos por pica tanto para um lado como para o outro. Mas como disse, não tenhas muitas esperanças. Na secretaria do CC não vão entender e remeter para aquilo que conhecem - o Word ou o Adobe InDesign. Falar-lhes sobre LaTeX é como lhes falar em unicórnios. A única coisa que podes tentar fazer é falar com o teu orientador e ver se ele consegue fazer com a secretaria do CC entenda o teu caso. |
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Para marcar o ponto, vou mostrar que o próprio documento do Despacho RT-31/2019 usar TeX points. O documento deveria ter 10pt, no entanto, o Inkscape marca 9.96. I rest my case.
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@joaomlourenco looks like sending samples to the School of Engineering's Scientific Council was a shot in the foot. |
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Dear @b-pereira et all,
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@joaomlourenco , sorry for the long and confusing messages. To summarize:
I haven't been able to identify a possible solution, but I wonder if the patch somehow works for the Copyright section and not the rest? |
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Open \p@=1bpIt will do the trick. Please confirm. NOTE: it seems it does not do the trick. It should but it does not. I'll investigate further. |
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These are good news. Initially I got the feeling it was working all right, then that it was not. Maybe I stumbled upon one of those that remain at 11.96. From your message can I assume it is working for normal text but not for bold (and probably also not for italic)? Can you verify this please? Thanks. |
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@joaomlourenco Yes, that seems to be the pattern. Bold and italic text, ~11.96. Normal text 12pt |
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I'll see if I can fix this. :) |
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From Peter Flynn's article:
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The definition of the point value has the problem of being used on many packages. One can change the point value at one place, but other packages can load the Tex point value definition, rendering this definition useless. As Peter Flynn pointed out, this is an internal definition. For instance, as you know, there are definitions for compatibility for the time of Latex 2e and the previous one coexisted in many packages. In 2005 was already regarded as unnecessary, given that LaTeX 2e was already the only version. But again, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. This part is just a reminder that LaTeX, or better TeX, is old ... An example, to illustrate to everyone the overwrite, would be using André Miède's Classic Thesis with Ars Classica and with |
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Answer@dlrsb I found the answer. It works for all the cases that you specified like the "Statement of Integrity" title or "List of Figures" in the Contents, bold and italic fonts. Check the image at the end of the answer. Given that this template uses The scaling factor is 12/11.955 = 1.003764115 and it gives 12pt on the spot (not 11.99pt). Go to \setmainfont{NewsGotT}[
Ligatures=TeX,
Mapping=tex-text,
Path = NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/Fonts/,
UprightFont=n015003t.ttf,
BoldFont=n015006t.ttf,
AutoFakeSlant=0.15,
BoldSlantedFont=n015006t.ttf,
BoldItalicFont=n015006t.ttf,
BoldSlantedFeatures={FakeSlant=0.15},
BoldItalicFeatures={FakeSlant=0.15},
Scale = 1.003764115 % ------------------------------- HERE
]
\setfontfamily\newsgott{n015003t.ttf}[
Ligatures=TeX,
Mapping=tex-text,
Path = NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/Fonts/,
Scale = 1.003764115 % ------------------------------- HERE
]
\setfontfamily\newsgottbf{n015006t.ttf}[
Ligatures=TeX,
Mapping=tex-text,
Path = NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/Fonts/,
Scale = 1.003764115 % ------------------------------- HERE
]
\setfontfamily\newsgottbfit{n015006t.ttf}[
Ligatures=TeX,
Mapping=tex-text,
Path = NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/Fonts/,
BoldItalicFeatures={FakeSlant=0.15},
Scale = 1.003764115 % ------------------------------- HERE
]
\setfontfamily\newsgottit{n015003t.ttf}[
Ligatures=TeX,
Mapping=tex-text,
Path = NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/Fonts/,
ItalicFeatures={FakeSlant=0.15},
Scale = 1.003764115 % ------------------------------- HERE
]
\setfontfamily\newsgottsl{n015003t.ttf}[
Ligatures=TeX,
Mapping=tex-text,
Path = NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/Fonts/,
AutoFakeSlant=0.15,
Scale = 1.003764115 % ------------------------------- HERE
]Also, to do this don't add @joaomlourenco point definition because it will set the main font to 12.045 pt.
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@dlrsb I'll need your help with something. You mentioned that you customized the back cover with mentions of the financial support and logos. In https://github.com/b-pereira/UMINHO-PHD-MSc-Covers/releases I didn't create the proper box for that content yet. I f you could give me your example, it would be much appreciated. |
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@b-pereira I'm not sure if @dlrsb adaptation of the back cover is for the old UMinho branch. If it is, it would be great to "import" it to the current main branch. I'm available to help if necessary. Thanks. |
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He used the AI file from the official channel and I need to see how he did it to add to my own. The solution is already in the issue for the covers and I add that to his colleague that was using the old UMinho branch. What seemed to be me nitpicking at irrelevant details was shown to be self-evident by ... oh boy ... the 3% smaller font size. |
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Yes, I edited the official files using Inkscape. It should look something like this |
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I was studying that specification. The text (the entities names) has to be white as the rest of the cover. The logos have to be with the colour, even with the logos text colour. The formatting guidelines say "the entities names or logos". It would be better to align the image to the date and "UMinho | 2019". The guidelines only say at the bottom, but if the bottom has 10mm it would be more "correct" I think. Thank you! |
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@b-pereira and @dlrsb There was a problem with the main font. @b-pereira suggestion of changing the scale is, indeed, the perfect solution! Congrats on the idea. Please submit a patched Now, concerning the mono fonts, the inter-line spacing, etc… my advice is “don't create problems where there is none!” Submit again and let them point out (or not) other problems. |
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@joaomlourenco Pull request created #290 |
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Answer
@dlrsb I found the answer.
It works for all the cases that you specified like the "Statement of Integrity" title or "List of Figures" in the Contents, bold and italic fonts. Check the image at the end of the answer.
Given that this template uses
\fontspecfor News Got T the way to do it is to scale all News Got T font definitions with theScaleoption.The scaling factor is 12/11.955 = 1.003764115 and it gives 12pt on the spot (not 11.99pt).
Go to
NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/FontStyles/newsgott.ldfand addScale = 1.003764115to all NewsGotT definitions, like below:\setmainfont{NewsGotT}[ Ligatures=TeX, Mapping=tex-text, Path = NOVAthesisFiles/FontStyles/Fonts/, UprightFont…