Windows 11

[eN0Rm]

Trouble with Windows 11 and the task bar. Can't choose multiple windows if it's under an icon.

[binki]

Yeah, I’ve noticed this too. I’ve been forced to use alt-tab in more situations. And alt-tab with multiple monitors only works if initiated on the primary monitor.

[binki]

Just note that this is a limitation of Windows and not something which XMouse-Controls can change—all it does is turn on the built-in Windows focus follows mouse feature in the same way that PowerToys (which only runs on older versions of Windows) would.

[joelpurra]

Haven't tried Windows 11, so can't say myself. Are there any potential workarounds? Might add them to the usage/tips section.

• https://joelpurra.com/projects/X-Mouse_Controls/#usage

Seems Windows 11 is too new to be listed in the Wikipedia market share statistics, but guess over time more X-Mouse Controls users are expected to experience the same issue.

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Windows#Usage_share_and_device_sales

[binki]

I don’t see any easy workaround. The issue is that there is space between the task bar and the shown window thumbnails, so you will unintentionally focus a different window behind the thumbnails while trying to mouse over the thumbnails which triggers the task bar to hide its thumbnails:

It won’t close the thumbnails if only the desktop is shown, but most applications will trigger the thumbnails closing (including PuTTY, CMD, Firefox, etc.…). I noticed that Kakaotalk won’t trigger that, though. Here I raise the thumbnails on top of a Kakaotalk chat window and can easily move my mouse to the thumbnails:

Kakaotalk seems to be an older skinned sort of application, so it must be failing to do something which normal applications do which trigger the issue.

I think sometimes I can flick my mouse fast enough that it skips the gap and lets me hover over the thumbnails.

None of the strategies such as holding right-click or holding click work. The Taskbar immediately closes the thumbnails on right click and won’t show them on left click until you release the mouse.

In Windows 10, there is no gap, so no problem:

Sorry for the ridiculous screenshots, but that is what I have found so far ;-).

[joelpurra]

@binki: thanks for the explanation! I'd say this is the same issue as on Windows 7 (reported in 2012, at least for jump lists), resurfacing due to a few pixels difference in the Windows 11 user interface design. Microsoft may have alternated having a gap between Vista, 7, 10, 11? I may be conflating right-click jump lists with on-hover window previews though.

• https://superuser.com/questions/390724/can-the-distance-between-jump-lists-and-the-task-bar-be-configured-in-windows-7

None of the strategies such as holding right-click or holding click work. The Taskbar immediately closes the thumbnails on right click and won’t show them on left click until you release the mouse.

That's too bad, because click-drag is a decent (as in predictable) workaround. Perhaps Windows' focus logic changed to disregard mouse button status? Might be related to drag-dropping files/text/other/"nothing", which may or may no trigger hover effects. More research is required; official documentation would be the best source.

The desktop not stealing focus is as it always (?) has been -- afaik also on *nix systems. Having random applications, such as Kakaotalk, not steal focus is probably due to the degree of control over focus Windows allows applications. I doubt Microsoft will ever change that behavior, out of backwards compatibility concerns.

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@eN0Rm: which delay (in milliseconds) have you configured in X-Mouse Controls?

@binki: I believe you prefer a 0 millisecond delay. Does increasing the delay help? For testing purposes it might help to try a very long delay, such as 1000 milliseconds.

Note that application focus shift when using a 0 millisecond focus "delay" may be affected by the speed of the computer hardware. The system may simply be "too fast" (on a human scale) to reliably flick/move the pointer across the gap, without the pointer position being detected as shifting focus to the application behind the gap. Merely setting the delay to 1 millisecond (or more) may allow for a more predictable result in moving across the start bar gap, and should not affect the perceived focus shift delay (again, on a human scale).

If/when the gap catches focus might be related to concerns pro gamers have regarding mouse input lag, in particular for first person shooter games, which in turn is related to (apart from CPU/GPU/memory speed etcetera) hardware standards such as PS/2, USB 1/2/3+. But, I digress. Having enabled X-Mouse Controls for everyday application use should not be compared to pro-gaming ;)

[binki]

None of the strategies such as holding right-click or holding click work. The Taskbar immediately closes the thumbnails on right click and won’t show them on left click until you release the mouse.

That's too bad, because click-drag is a decent (as in predictable) workaround. Perhaps Windows' focus logic changed to disregard mouse button status? Might be related to drag-dropping files/text/other/"nothing", which may or may no trigger hover effects. More research is required; official documentation would be the best source.

Oh, it looks like I was wrong. I was using the wrong approach. I was trying to right-click or left-click on the application icon on the taskbar. If I left/right click on the application button, it sees that I clicked on the application icon and closes the menu.

However, if I right-click and then move to a different application icon or right click on a benign area of the taskbar to start, I can hover over a different icon and then mouse over that. When I release the right mouse button, I can then click on the window I want.

So that workaround does work, just not reliably (EDIT: err, just not as intuitively as the right-click hack works for some other things).

Left-click dragging on the taskbar is not viable because that is the way to reposition icons. I also noticed that if I left-click on a benign part of the taskbar and move on top of icons, they behave weirdly (as if they are trying to get out of the way of me as if I were dragging another application icon when I am not). So right-click is the solution! Sorry for the confusion!

[joelpurra]

However, if I right-click and then move to a different application icon or right click on a benign area of the taskbar to start, I can hover over a different icon and then mouse over that. When I release the right mouse button, I can then click on the window I want.

This certainly seems like a very specific way to do it, but guess the taskbar doesn't have quite as many empty/unresponsive areas as before (in particular if left-click-drag means repositioning icons). As I cannot confirm this on Windows 11 personally in the near future, how would you word an addition to the usage/tips section of the website? Would the same wording also apply to other versions of Windows, or only Windows 11?

@eN0Rm: this is a hassle of a workaround, what with the right-click in the benign/empty/unresponsive areas to consider, but can you please confirm that it works for you?

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@binki: sorry to bother you with this specifically, but could you also test/confirm if the 1000 millisecond delay works? Increasing the delay is the go-to explanation for many other "pixel gaps", it's just more dependent on personal preferences (and also on computer hardware/system speed).

[binki]

As I cannot confirm this on Windows 11 personally in the near future, how would you word an addition to the usage/tips section of the website? Would the same wording also apply to other versions of Windows, or only Windows 11?

The right-click behavior works on Windows 10. However, on Windows 10, you can right-click while hovering over the app you are interested in as it won’t cause the thumbnail to recall. So, better to experience it on Windows 11 directly to see the behavior. The following is the minimum procedure to follow on Windows 11:

1. Move your mouse over an application icon or empty area of the taskbar.
2. Click and hold the right mouse button.
3. Move your mouse off of the application icon whose window you want to raise (you may simply start this procedure with your mouse hovering over a different application icon or an empty area of the taskbar instead).
4. Hover your mouse over the application icon whose window you want to raise. Window thumbnails will appear.
5. Move your mouse up to hover over the thumbnails.
6. Release the right mouse button.
7. Now proceed to left click on the window you want to raise or hover over the one you want to preview.

@binki: sorry to bother you with this specifically, but could you also test/confirm if the 1000 millisecond delay works? Increasing the delay is the go-to explanation for many other "pixel gaps", it's just more dependent on personal preferences (and also on computer hardware/system speed).

Certainly! I set it to 1ms and the issue is not noticeable for me at all. I am going to continue using 0ms and the right-click workaround just because I like the 0ms feel for everything else, but 1ms is probably a viable workaround for most people. Not certain if people who move their mouses more slowly would need something larger.

Let me know if I missed anything in my reply!

[binki]

Also, this issue is most noticeable for applications which have multiple windows open. I encounter it when I want to raise a window quick without alt-tabbing far or when my hand is not near the keyboard. For applications with a single window open, clicking on the application icon instantly raises it. If there are multiple windows grouped together, I have to use the thumbnails to select a window to get anything to be raised. That is likely when one would encounter this issue.

[joelpurra]

@binki: great, thanks! As you may have figured, I'll continue pushing for the increase in delay (to personal preference) as the primary "fix" for most issues, in particular when it's confirmed that a 1 millisecond delay makes a difference. A section for per-version Windows workarounds might be a logical next step. (Having a static website isn't the best for such user-generated content, but I expect updates to be few and far between, just like Windows releases.)

That said, Windows 11 is still only a few weeks old and I'd appreciate other users chiming in with their experience. Does the taskbar preview window workaround work for you? How about increasing the delay, to at least 1 millisecond, perhaps 100 or more?

[eN0Rm]

However, if I right-click and then move to a different application icon or right click on a benign area of the taskbar to start, I can hover over a different icon and then mouse over that. When I release the right mouse button, I can then click on the window I want.

This certainly seems like a very specific way to do it, but guess the taskbar doesn't have quite as many empty/unresponsive areas as before (in particular if left-click-drag means repositioning icons). As I cannot confirm this on Windows 11 personally in the near future, how would you word an addition to the usage/tips section of the website? Would the same wording also apply to other versions of Windows, or only Windows 11?

@eN0Rm: this is a hassle of a workaround, what with the right-click in the benign/empty/unresponsive areas to consider, but can you please confirm that it works for you?

That workaround worked.

[joelpurra]

@eN0Rm: good to hear, thank you for confirming!

[binki]

Starting around build 22567, it seems that Windows itself has a small delay built into the taskbar so that I can move my mouse up onto the window thumbnails. There is still space and if I move my mouse into the space and hold it there, the focus leaves the taskbar. But if I move my mouse over that space within something like 100 milliseconds up to the thumbnail previews, it seems to hold onto focus temporarily. So maybe some focus-follows-mouse-using Windows dev fixed this?