Interesting applications

[kaveh808]

Starting this thread so we can collect interesting examples which can inspire or guide us. Please contribute your suggestions.

I'll start with this video from Sorin: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9HI8FerKr6Q

[ghost]

[kaveh808]

Yes, shape sweeping and I assume boolean operations on meshes, which can be complex. If someone is motivated to do this, I'm happy to provide guidance.

What parts of the workbench idea do you find interesting? I have been thinking about ways of organizing plugin functionality.

[kaveh808]

Interesting. I have been thinking along those lines, with some of the plugin files installing specialized menus into the GUI. e.g. uv-mesh.lisp

[awolven]

I've written cl bindings for opencascade which is the solid modeler that freecad uses. ***@***.***:awolven/oc.gitSent from my Galaxy -------- Original message --------From: Marengo Zed ***@***.***> Date: 11/13/22 4:16 PM (GMT-06:00) To: kaveh808/kons-9 ***@***.***> Cc: Subscribed ***@***.***> Subject: Re: [kaveh808/kons-9] Interesting applications (Discussion #78) My most recent thinking It's been over a year since I looked at this stuff, so not very recent, and I'm obviously no expert either. I think it's worth some of my time looking at exactly how FreeCAD and CAMotics have done it--I can't remember what techniques they use. If there is anyone knowledgeable out there, please feel free to chime in. —Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub, or unsubscribe.You are receiving this because you are subscribed to this thread.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[WillAdams]

I've put a tiny bit of code up on this for OpenSCAD/RapCAD, focused on making a 3D model based on a toolpath and then writing out G-code to actually cut the model:

https://github.com/WillAdams/gcodepreview

One thing of note is the issue of tool specification --- CAMotics uses an XML file for this, but there's a de facto industry standard of putting the tool description in comments before the tool change --- the PDF documentation for CutViewer writes this up quite nicely, and it allows for description of most tools.

One notable capability to consider is whether or no undercuts are allowed/modeled properly --- doing so allows one to represent keyhole cutters, dovetail cutters, and "lollipop" cutters which would be quite nice.

[awolven]

I have a generative knowledge based engineering kernel that I'm going to augment kons-9 with, but that kernel is GPL https://github.com/awolven/adhoc It is designed to be like Icad.

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On Thu, Nov 17, 2022 at 1:41 PM Marengo Zed ***@***.***> wrote: Another interesting idea for kons-9 is a base for generative CAD design, I don't know if that has been mentioned, but here's a link to a commercial product: https://ntopology.com/generative-design-software/ — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#78 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AABGMMMLNBC3MHF2355K73TWI2DALANCNFSM6AAAAAAQBXFQYE> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[awolven]

What's implicit function modeling?

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On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 11:44 AM Marengo Zed ***@***.***> wrote: Adhoc looks like an interesting project--one of the big CAD companies still has Icad in some form. From the description of adhoc, Gendl and Cells have similar functionality. Even Open Inventor has a push to change, pull to update "reactive model" inside with it's field objects. nTopology uses implicit function modeling, IIRC. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#78 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AABGMMLFU6EA4PRABFZ6Z2TWI656ZANCNFSM6AAAAAAQBXFQYE> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[kaveh808]

Check out demo-isosurface.lisp.

[kaveh808]

Let me know if you have any questions. There isn't a proper plugin interface yet -- you just load your code and make kons-9 calls.

[awolven]

Adhoc itself does not contain any geometry.

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On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 12:39 PM Marengo Zed ***@***.***> wrote: Another term for it is F-rep <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Function_representation> or SDF--these terms do have specific technical meaning, but are sometimes used to describe the application domain as a whole. In math a implicit function is f(x,y,z) to define a function, an explicit form (used in parametric-style modeling) would be x(t), y(t), z(t) -- the coordinates are explicitly specified. Both have advantages and disadvantages for geometric representation. Kaveh mentioned having some implicit function code in kons-9, but I haven't found it or looked at it yet. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#78 (comment)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AABGMMKYFNL64JFOPGFB7BDWI7EN3ANCNFSM6AAAAAAQBXFQYE> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[awolven]

Lisp was the original "plugin" language.

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On Fri, Nov 18, 2022 at 4:08 PM Kaveh Kardan ***@***.***> wrote: Let me know if you have any questions. There isn't a proper plugin interface yet -- you just load your code and make kons-9 calls. — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#78 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AABGMMNO2GKK3OJVR2LFMY3WI744PANCNFSM6AAAAAAQBXFQYE> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[ghost]

[kaveh808]

Neat seeing an app built on Symbolics machines. I'll peruse this over the weekend. Thanks.

[WillAdams]

As a person who has raged against it not being possible to position a point at exact coordinates (the software insisted on something like 10.0001 pts.), let me say, "Yes, please."

[foretspaisibles]

Exact arithmetic is occasionally suitable for geometric problems but if we are interested in drawing implicit curves or surfaces, doing riemannian geometry (e.g. distances on surfaces), animations based on physical laws (exponential), then exact arithmetic is just unable to do that. (Unless maybe everything is a continued fraction.)

[aykaramba]

Wouldn't it be cool if we could get Greenspun and some Symbolics people on the project just for fun?

[awolven]

Build it on Bill Gosper's continued fraction expansions.

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On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 9:07 PM William Adams ***@***.***> wrote: As a person who has raged against it not being possible to position a point at exact coordinates (the software insisted on something like 10.0001 pts.), let me say, "Yes, please." — Reply to this email directly, view it on GitHub <#78 (reply in thread)>, or unsubscribe <https://github.com/notifications/unsubscribe-auth/AABGMMICL6BZALEARK5YOSDWJWC6DANCNFSM6AAAAAAQBXFQYE> . You are receiving this because you commented.Message ID: ***@***.***>

[shalindesigns2023]

[WillAdams]

Apparently SPAM bots have made their way to Github. Could @kaveh808 or someone tidy that up? Did report it from their user page.

[kaveh808]

Deleted.

[ghost]

[kaveh808]

There is very rudimentary support for user-defined interactions. See test/demo-interactor.lisp for some example snake games.

[foretspaisibles]

Furnitures arrangement planner

Add primitives to create rooms and furnitures, to help people model their flat and plan the arrangement of furnitures or changes. Could be handy before considerable changes(refitting a closet, expanding the kitchen, switching bed or sofa) or in tight places that.

[foretspaisibles]

Physics engine

Couple with a physics engine to generate realistic animations or models.

1. Bouncy cubes falling from a height on the ground.
2. Same as 1. with knobs to turn gravity on and off :-)
3. Animated solar system or planet with satellites, with Newton mechanics.
4. Air flowing through a fan and flowing a curtain.
5. Wind carrying autumn leaves.
6. Cars, buses, and trains interacting in a city (or toy city)
7. Electrical magnet.
8. Robot mouse finding the goal in a labyrinth (the robot has sensors and the engine let the robot bump into walls.)
9. Materials whose resistance collapse.
10. Special frequencies of a bridge.

[kaveh808]

This may be a place where we can interface to an existing C/C++ physics engine. As always though, I am wary of adding dependencies which could complicate setup.

[foretspaisibles]

Data Exploration

Set great plotting and tabulating facilities, with export to common formats (raster PNG or SVG). Make stunning visualisations, and data driven documents. There is a heap of ideas under D3 (https://d3js.org)

[foretspaisibles]

Common Lisp IDE

Pull an Emacs-like editor to make a source code editor with incredible code navigation, and visualisation abilities (coverage, performance or value inspection). Take advantage of human spatial abilities.

[kaveh808]

I like the idea of visualization tools for inspecting code and data structures. Maybe starting with a UI on top of the inspect facility.

[ghost]

[kaveh808]

I remember that. :)

[ghost]

[theottm]

There is incudine.
Someone used CEPL with it for live coding. I never tried it but it looks promising.

I will try it out at some point when I go back to music production. If I have fun with I could have a try adding it to kons-9

[kaveh808]

I wonder if adding audio will require somehow ensuring "real time" playback. Currently we don't have such a thing. Animation is done by simply holding down the spacebar. Convenient but a kludge.

[theottm]

That's probably going to be a whole topic :) I never played with building a sound engine myself. Nore have I written something real time.

Two systems that I used in the past to make sound are exempore and SuperCollider. They both have a DSP server running in real time.

Extempore is actually very interesting, it is written in scheme with a statically typed DSL for low level DSP code. It is designed for live coding. In some way it is the CEPL of music, since CEPL integrates gpu code in the main code as well and targets live coding as well.

Real-time or the management of time constraints is actually an relevant consideration even out of the scope of music, if someone wants to build a game on kons-9 for example.

[kaveh808]

We shall see in what direction(s) the system develops in organically over time. Discovery is part of the joy of the journey.

[theottm]

I'm curious to see where it leads

[ghost]

[kaveh808]

What part of this would be applicable to kons-9?

[kayomarz]

Nikola Tesla too used visualization. He used it to help him invent things . His
power of visualization started with a childhood problem wherein images used to
appear in his mind and which he used to try to get rid of by exercising his mind

From Tesla's autobiography:

To free myself of these tormenting appearances, I tried to concentrate my mind
on something else I had seen...

Once he got control, he used visualization to help him with his inventions.

From Tesla's autobiography:

When I get an idea, I start at once building it up in my imagination. I change
the construction, make improvements and operate the device in my mind. It is
absolutely immaterial to me whether I run my turbine in thought or test it in
my shop. I even note if it is out of balance. There is no difference whatever;
the results are the same. In this way I am able to rapidly develop and perfect
a conception without touching anything. When I have gone so far as to embody in
the invention every possible improvement I can think of and see no fault
anywhere, I put into concrete form this final product of my brain.

Read more about it in his autobiography:
https://archive.org/details/NikolaTeslaTheStrangeLifeOfNikolaTesla/page/n9/mode/2up

[kaveh808]

I think kons-9 would be a good platform for mathematical visualizations, allowing for rapid and flexible development of such code in CL.

[theottm]

I totally agree. Lisp allows for interactive direct feedback. Also the system is extendable, allowing for special needs. Once the system can handle bigger size scenes, it can legit be used for everyday plotting as well as more complex visualizations.

[theottm]

I'll get to that parametrized surface feature once I done with exams :) that open doors.