Effect installed but not available for use - Recti Org on B1XFour #59
Comments
There doesn't appear to be a "NEEDED" library dependency (as in #37). So what else could prevent the effect from functioning? |
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I'd ask the user if the installed effect can be used on-device, that is not from the GL? The official editors filter the lists by model, which, well, makes sense. I thought it was the general understanding that the side-loaded effects attach user to the device's UI for patch management, which is not too bad, IMO. A little price to pay for not acquiring the additional devices. Otherwise, ZOOM's offering is very much comprehensive. |
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I believe that they user is seeing a failure on his pedal. Using my GCE-3 and some 'script-foo' it does appear that it is NOT working on my pedal... |
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Does it work on your
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GCE-3 pretending to be G1XFour works... As noted on Reddit post, there are actually 3 versions of this effect |
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GCE-3 as A1XFour does not work... |
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I also checked GUARDZDL.... |
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Maybe one of these only exists in the G1(X)Four FW... |
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Maybe it's about |
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How about the |
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So here's a summary of the official AMP effects for the "Four" pedals. |
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Did you try to see if P.S. the aggregated effects list also denotes if a given effect belongs to B/A sets. |
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Why do it manually, when you can script instead.. ;-) |
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So pretty much, these seem to match the official allocation. For the G1XFour (real hardware) there are a couple of AMPs which don't work, they don't work on either GCE-3 setting either... Looks like I missed copying these to the test directory. |
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I'm not sure what is being done here. Could you roughly explain the objective and the findings? |
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Just scripted up what I did manually before... The The next question, I guess, is to see if there is a 'marker' in the ZD2 which might explain. We can also transplant the code from one effect into another. This might help tell us whether the 'issue' is within the actual code, or the other parts of the ZD2. |
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If I understood it correctly, some of
FYI: On real |
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I didn't test 'gce-3_as_g1four', I used my real G1XFour. The mistake with MS19591U.ZD2 and MS45OS1U.ZD2 was mine, I failed to copy them to the local drive (and therefore they were not uploaded to pedal). Fixed results: |
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Ok. So all native AMP effects should work ok on the real Also, it looks like in your new As for B-AMPs, the |
Looks like there's a off-by-one problem in the script. I understand that you're sending the patch file into the patch number 48. Then "refresh" it to reload into current, but select it as a different patch number (57): Instead, the command should be: |
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Not sure if I should say "well spotted" :-)... This is actually a bug/deficiency with the ZoomZT2 code, in that different pedals have different arrangements of groups for patches. I didn't progress figuring it out. The said, we/the script confirms that the correct patch is set by download the current ('-c') patch - showing that the change has be set. For the 'screens' the On/Off state of the patch is unpredictable - this maybe that the parameters are left at invalid settings. |
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Sorry for bothering you, guys, but is there any progress on that? I'm thinking about buying a B1x4 pedal as a temporary dual guitar/bass solution (already have g1four, but it's not available at the moment) and thinking if it will fit my needs. |
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@a13 Слава Україні! FWIW, B1/B1X FOUR and G1/G1X FOUR already share quite a few effect modules by default. I'm not sure if you've tried it already yourself on your G1 FOUR, it has no trouble running B1 FOUR "specific" modules (at least as of fw v2.00). So it's reasonable to expect that B1 FOUR should be able to run G1 FOUR "specific" modules just as well. In fact, so far there has not been much feedback about it being otherwise. I guess, @shooking did some tests using these scripts with B1X FOUR, maybe he could chime in on that. Mind that B1 FOUR on-board EQ uses somewhat different frequencies, more optimized for Bass, than G1 FOUR. Technically, this could be compensated by using a separate EQ module, though it will take up a slot. Also, you need to realize that any side-loaded effect modules will not be visible in the GuitarLab, because it filters the modules by model. This pretty much ties the patch management to the device's controls or this and similar third-party scripts. It may be possible to use GL/ToneLib but only with "native" modules. |
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HI @a13 @nomadbyte - I made a video on how to change the pedals as follows I am sure @mungewell can do this all from the CLI - but I wanted to show folks how they can plan what they want from each pedal. I gave my G1XFour away to a youth at the church - he was interested in learning guitar and I only got the pedal to play hacking. I did noticed the BDLs but I didnt realise they made that much difference to the EQ. I guess it is like a firmware version of changing the caps in a Cry Baby :-) For what it's worth, I use the G5n as my main pedal. Loaded all the bass FX I need and I havent noticed any lack of bass via front of house speakers - there again I got me a Hartke 410XL for £30 and driving that via a Fender Champion 110 generates a ton of bass! If I wanted to control the pedal but from a G1Four or B1Four then I would instead add an ADC to the Pi4, read in pedal values, modify my GUI to allow choice of parameter(s) and some path (maybe I want linear up on one and exp down on another?), and send the parameter changes via midi. I also managed to get my PCB working for Zoom remote control - basically breakout the 3.3v lines from Zoom into a 25 pin D Sub, DuPont those into a header - PCB then allows monetary guitar footswitches turn all the front panel modes (looper, rhythm, mem, settings, FX1 - 5, Tuner (sends FS1 and 2), and P1 - P4 up/down plus sends Bluetooth to a page turner (song down, page back, page forward, song up). Controlled via an ESP32 - I can also accept signals in to control the pedal (not written yet but functionality is there). Likely I will either install a 5 pin midi and decode in the loop - send NRPNs to do the business or use midi over Bluetooth (except I want the page turner - so only if both can be supported). Video coming out tomorrow - https://youtu.be/9oaGytZxghs
Hi @mungewell - not sure if you mean "07" and "44" command - to determine the num patches/banks and patch size - we spoke about this a while back - I would LOVE for zoomzt2 to do what i hacked into your code https://github.com/shooking/ZoomPedalFun/wiki/De-re-B1XFour I call this the Lewis (Hamilton) - 0x44 |
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The more complicated answer involves admitting that we didn't figure out the issue with 'RectiOrg' (and other Amp effects). I will note that the MS series have a separate DLL which are used with the Guitar amps/effects, and perhaps somehow the same exists on the newer pedals. On the issue of frequency bands/ranges - I had a recent discussion somewhere on modifying effects, and confirmed that the frequencies are set in the ZD2 code section as a list of float32. I'll see if I can find a link to post. This raises the possibility of converting 'guitar' effects to work better with basses. [edit - add link] @shooking I do remember the thing about reading patch size, and I hacked in some support for this... but the logic may not be the best. |
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Excellent work. I haven't used my Pi this year - looks like I need to dust it off. Why is 127 the multiple and not 128 BTW? My thinking was this is 7 bit midi so 128 rather than 256. What did I miss? |
MS series is ZDL-based (multistomps like MS-70CDR), so it's not directly compatible with ZD2 systems as G1/B1 FOUR, G5n etc. If you're referring to the additional DRV/BASS ZDL modules on MS-50G/60B resp., those are separate ZDL files: |
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@nomadbyte Yep, those files... also mentioned here: Obviously we can't add a ZDL, but perhaps there is something that's linked or expected to be present that we have not accounted for. @shooking probably a bug... |
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Rereading the original post, the user reported:
and your followup:
I get to think that GL issue is a red herring here. The side-loaded "non-native" effects should not be visible in GL or ToneLib, these editors filter the effects list by model. Thus, installed or not, the For this reason, using GL to diagnose this issue is not a valid approach, unless you want to test your install script correctness in respect to "native" target (i.e. side-load Instead of the GL approach, I would suggest to try to side-load another "non-native" AMP onto B1X FOUR (real or emulated). For example, try |
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Ah GL is Zoom GuitarLab 😀 But ToneLib doesn't. It could but like you hinted a lot of the data is hardcoded (the MS70CDR/B1On with external FX proves this). That's why I added a GUI with a pedal probe 1st. https://github.com/shooking/ZoomPedalFun/tree/main/python B1xfour.py - it should work on any modern pedal. But I do need to use zoomzt2 as a module and need a couple of extra functions add to that. The only things I couldn't handle. I use my GUI with a 22 inch touchscreen on a Pi4. I don't yet feel confident to gig with it. But it sure helps to explore the FX. Some of my videos demo where GL/TL cannot read FX but our combined code can. But like I said - sometimes Zoom fix rendering bugs. Which is very magnanimous of them! |
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Looking for answers in the code, I stumbled upon these lines: Lines 781 to 783 in af23a0c It looks like there should be a This may explain that a new effect is reported as having been installed, yet its file is missing. Thus loading a patch that references such effect will show it as "MISSING", indeed the effect's ZD2 module file is simply not there. |
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Well spotted, there was actually a bug with |
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Note this does NOT fix this specific issue, these are the only AMPs which appear to work on the GCE-3 operating as B1FourX. I am reading the SysEx of the 'screens' (not using GL) to assess. |
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The AMP listed above are all Bass-AMPs, those defined for B1 FOUR (9 in total). Could you try the opposite test and see if Bass-AMPs work on the emulated G1X FOUR? For example, install |
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@nomadbyte - you saw my video where I turned a G1XFour onto a B1XFour right? Didn't I do this all? It worked. I don't have the non X. Maybe it know you can't have a pedal so stops anything with a pedal parameter? |
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@nomadbyte It appears that there are a number of effects which do NOT show when GCE-3 pretends to be G1FourX. Looking above it appears that the real hardware performs 'better'. |
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Thanks. In total, there should be 16 G-AMPs -- those are ok. The ones that failed are the B-AMPs (9 in total). Well, that's what I thought -- the GCE-3 fw may be the reason for these limitations, either Bass or Guitar-wise emulation. This leaves the test on the actual B1 FOUR hardware still open. Just as in @shooking test, the opposite -- Bass-AMPs on G1/G1X FOUR hardware -- appears to be functional. Perhaps, someone with the actual B1 FOUR hw may want to try to install even a single G-AMP (e.g. |
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I can try this. I gave the G1XFour away but I have the B1XFour on my desk - finalising my physical remote control device. I gig with my G5n. I loaded a range of bass FX on it but I didn't add any amps of cabs mostly because I pipe Zoom out into their mixer. I got me a real 4 x 10 Hartke recently. It pushes air :-). So I don't really use those models. |
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Is my problem (not the OP's) simply down to the GCE-3? I note that this keeps effect files in it's drive when you switch between emulations, and that the 'MODEL.ZSP' file seems to have a list of 'ZD2' files... perhaps a list of allowable ones. |
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I Reflashed my B1XFour - back to normal ... This RCTORG1U.ZD2 is pure evil! Trying to render using my code fails. I firmware reset the device. It is still there! |
@shooking Thanks for helping to repro the issue. Do you mean you're seeing Normally, The Can you also try to install |
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Sure. I did this at work today. I will film it so we can be sure I am not making mistakes. |
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Did you have a chance to test installing the |
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I can make time hopefully tomorrow - I am away at weekend so ping me again if I forget. A lot on at the moment. |
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I've been using the Ampeg SVT model on my G1X Four and am about to load on a lot more bass effects - would just like to thank Mungewell and everyone else for their great work on this. |
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Is this figured out yet? currently troubleshooting my pedal doing a similar thing, FX from B1X four won't show up on my hardware G1X four |
@3eby4b Yours is a different issue. What's been discussed here is the opposite: some G1 FOUR AMP effects (ZD2 files) not being operational on B1/B1X FOUR firmware. G1/G1X FOUR firmware should be able to load B1/B1X FOUR-specific effects. You may want to take a look at this |
Following on from a report on Reddit, I have confirmed that the " Recti ORG" effect (RCTORG1U.ZD2) can be installed to the pedal. but is not available for use...
https://www.reddit.com/r/zoommultistomp/comments/11cp6jf/missing_effect_no_found/
I don't have a B1XFour, but confirmed with GCE-3 configured as such. Which unfortunately makes it a little harder to control via the command line.
A patch with (just) this effect installed:
B1XFour_Recti.ztpc.gz
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