Add an entry in Preferences menu : "Launch Specto on startup"

[GoogleCodeExporter]

There is actually no easy way (=within Specto GUI) to have Specto starting
automatically with GNOME ; user has to go to Systeme>Sessions>Preferences
and then create a command.

That should be possible with Specto own preferences window

See Parcellite for an exemple of what could be done (screenshot attached)

(I'm running Specto 0.2.2 on Ubuntu Hardy alpha 6)

Original issue reported on code.google.com by [email protected] on 11 Mar 2008 at 2:15

Attachments:

• Parcellite.png

[GoogleCodeExporter]

hm, is it really hard to add "specto" to the session startup thing? What is the 
point
of that session properties dialog if all the apps on your desktop are not 
centralized
in it? Are we sure we want to add yet another item in our preferences and add 
another
level of complexity? (at the same time, I have no idea how to implement this 
properly)

Original comment by [email protected] on 11 Mar 2008 at 4:18

• Added labels: Type-Enhancement
• Removed labels: Type-Defect

[GoogleCodeExporter]

I see.
Maybe that the point is that installing Specto should be enough for having him
starting with GNOME : user should not have to do more manipulations. *
But user could remove it from GNOME Systeme>Preferences>Sessions menu.
So i suggest that default behaviour would be for specto to add itsel to the 
list in
GNOME menu. If it's possible.

* if the user install a watcher, we can assume that he wants to run it at 
startup or
it would be useless

Original comment by [email protected] on 11 Mar 2008 at 9:25

[GoogleCodeExporter]

See also http://code.google.com/p/xyhthyx/issues/detail?id=4

Original comment by [email protected] on 11 Mar 2008 at 10:34

[GoogleCodeExporter]

A better solution would be if the gnome-menu added a right-click menu on every 
item
where you can choose to add the program to the session.

Adding it directly to the session is not a good idea....in general i don't want 
that
every program that thinks that it has to start when i start a new session will 
do
this automatically, i prefer to choose what programs can do it or not (else 
amsn,
skype,... also have to implement this although not everybody wants to start 
these
programs at startup).

Original comment by [email protected] on 12 Mar 2008 at 8:49

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Actually you can choose, but you'll have to choose which program desactivate 
instead
of which one activate.

To sum up things, there are a few points to consider :

1°) I think that in some cases, installing a program go together with making 
it start
with GNOME session. In Specto and Parcellite cases, these softwares are useless 
if
they don't start with the session and keep on running all session long. Not all
softwares are like that (it's not useful to have Totem running all the time 
whereas
Tracker has to).

2°) We don't want to impose hidden things to the user (like malwares or 
rootkits do)
so the user should know (be notified ?) what programs will start automatically 
with
GNOME session

3°) how to deal with that ?
- Assuming 1°), there should be more users who would want to make the program
automatically start with GNOME session than user would want to desactivate it. 
The
80% rule (=take decision that fit the 80% needs) would lead to make the program
automatically start.
- Besides, new users may not know how to make softwares starting automatically,
whereas advanced users who want to desactivate them probably know how to do (i 
assume
that desactivate automatically starting programs is more a task/need for 
advanced users).

Therefore i suggest to make Specto automatically start after its installation, 
with
the possibility for users to desactivate it through SystemePreferences>Sessions.

Moreover, to be fair with users, we can imagine a popup at first start that 
would say
"Specto has been added to the list of programs that run automatically. You may 
choose
to desactivate automatic startup by deselecting Specto in the list that can be 
found
in System_menu>Preferences>Sessions 

I think that should furfil most users' needs and respect the user right to know 
what
the program actually do (the user decides)

---
Note that when you add tomboy from the panel (add applet), it starts 
automatically,
whereas when you launch it from menu, not.

Original comment by [email protected] on 12 Mar 2008 at 4:57

[GoogleCodeExporter]

i think i was tired when i wrote ce message above concerning the popup thing, 
which
may be the worst idea of the year

Since Specto has an icon in the Notification Area, it is not hidden and then 
the user
is perfectly aware that Specto is running
All what is needed is to have a Help file/FAQ that explain how to desactivate 
Specto
at startup

To sum up things, i suggest : 
- to make Specto automatically start after its installation, with the 
possibility for
users to desactivate it through Systeme>Preferences>Sessions
- to precise in Specto help how to descativate Specto at startup

I think that should furfil most users' needs and respect the user freedom to 
decide
what program is allowed to run (the user decides)

According to Parcellite developer, a program adds itself to
System->Preferences->Sessions by providing a .desktop file in /etc/xdg/autostart

Original comment by [email protected] on 12 Mar 2008 at 11:16

[GoogleCodeExporter]

as i said on Parcellite bug report :

I assume (that can be discussed) that if the user install a watcher, he
wants it to run at startup (the contrary would be useless and then non logical).
I think that this point is the main point of the discussion.
If you do agree, applying the 80 percent solution should lead to make Specto
start with GNOME session. If you do not agree, let the user decide to make it 
start
with GNOME session.

Original comment by [email protected] on 12 Mar 2008 at 11:39

[GoogleCodeExporter]

> "In Specto and Parcellite cases, these softwares are useless if they don't 
start
with the session and keep on running all session long"

I somewhat agree and somewhat disagree on this. The fact that the user has to
consciously choose to add the application to startup has nothing to do with the
usefulness of the program itself.

> "i think i was tired when i wrote ce message above concerning the popup thing,
which may be the worst idea of the year"

Hahaha, I have to agree on that! I was most likely one of the worst idea of the 
year
(in a GNOME context ;) ! I am somewhat glad you noticed how weird and intrusive 
it
would be...


I'm still not totally convinced. I often start specto myself, manually, and 
there are
multiple reasons for myself and potentially for other users. Consider the 
following
reasons/use cases:
- saves ressources, especially on login time
- I am on a laptop, often without a network connection, or those friggin' 
*stupid*
Windoze Vista laptops all around me who think that they are very smart by 
creating
tons of Ad-Hoc networks automatically, with the same SSID as the university 
network
(my laptop always tries connecting to them and reports to specto that I 
therefore
have a network connection).
- I am not always (actually, rarely) on a secure/trusted network
- I would not want specto to check stuff like my mail accounts until connected 
to a
VPN or something; man in the middle attacks!
- specto is very good at preventing you from being productive, somewhat. 
Sometimes it
is better to have it not always on to Get Things Done(TM).
- my university network requires authentification when you connect to it, 
before you
can check mail and websites. If specto is open at that time, it will trigger 
false
update alarms.

But yeah, I assume that in lots of use cases, the user would like it on login. I
still have to test some of your arguments though. Here I come:

> "The 80% rule (=take decision that fit the 80% needs) would lead to make the
program automatically start."
I know what you mean, I just want to play the devil's advocate here and say, "we
don't know those 80%".

> "We don't want to impose hidden things to the user [...] so the user should 
know
(be notified ?) what programs will start automatically with GNOME session" 
[...] "If
you do not agree, let the user decide to make it start with GNOME session."

I can turn this 180° :)
"We don't want to impose hidden things to the user [...] so the user should 
choose
what programs will start automatically with GNOME session by adding them 
himself"
[...] "If you do not agree, let the user decide to make it start with GNOME 
session
by adding specto to the session startup."

;) the thing is, Specto is not (yet?) a system daemon, and much like pidgin, 
liferea,
gajim, evolution, openoffice quickstarter, etc, I'm not sure specto should be
obtrusive enough to impose itself on the user without him having chosen that.

Just making your life tough by providing a lot of counter arguments here :) but 
here
is one "programming logic" concern I do have (the idea came to my mind just 
now),
regarding the implementation.

How the heck do you add that to the user's session "only the first time"? If 
the user
removes it from the session, then how are we supposed to "guess" that and not 
dumbly
"re-add" the app to the session?

At least for now, this seems like feature creep that is already handled by 
another
app (gnome session properties) and would go against the unixy "do one thing and 
do it
very well"... and what's the point of that gnome session properties if all the 
apps
hack autostart by themselves on behalf of the "typical user"?

Original comment by [email protected] on 13 Mar 2008 at 12:19

[GoogleCodeExporter]

I understand very well your answer

exccept concerning :
"At least for now, this seems like feature creep that is already handled by 
another
app (gnome session properties) and would go against the unixy "do one thing and 
do it
very well"... and what's the point of that gnome session properties if all the 
apps
hack autostart by themselves on behalf of the "typical user"?"

- My present proposal is to add Specto to gnome session list which doesn't hurt 
the
above axiom
- As i said, we're not talking about all the apps
- Gnome session list has two functions : activate & desactivate autostart for 
programs
- And what's the point if all the apps do things against the "typical user"? ;-)

Original comment by [email protected] on 13 Mar 2008 at 12:41

[GoogleCodeExporter]

with ubuntu 9.04 alpha 4, i've noticed that when i install parcellite,
netbook-launcher or maximus from the repos, they add themselves to
System>Preferences>Startup applications

that is not the case with Specto 0.3rc1

Original comment by [email protected] on 22 Feb 2009 at 2:30

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Now that I think of it, this also has a technical problem. Specto is intended 
to be
used by running launch.sh locally just as well as running it installed 
system-wide.
Creating a launcher that expects specto to be installed systemwide wouldn't 
work. I'm
still thinking the user should be in control and add the startup command 
himself if
he desires, and that the code to manage this in specto would be ugly.

Original comment by [email protected] on 22 Feb 2009 at 4:42

[GoogleCodeExporter]

specto is in Ubuntu repos

user has control since Specto can be disabled, i don't see where is the problem

maybe we should cut off all things that start by default with the session : no 
sound,
no services, no wallpaper... and let the user recreate the puzzle ?

user is free to change its wallpaper like he's free to disable Specto

Original comment by [email protected] on 22 Feb 2009 at 5:08

[GoogleCodeExporter]

The /additional/ problem I added in my last comment (#11) is *technical*.

Original comment by [email protected] on 22 Feb 2009 at 7:02

[GoogleCodeExporter]

maybe here is a solution :
create another package, with specto as dependency, whose goal is to add 
"specto" to
the session startup
That seems to be the way that Ubuntu Netbook Remix dev have choosen

The developers have also created a package, 
ubuntu-netbook-remix-default-settings,
that configures and adds the necessary programs, netbook-launcher and maximus, 
to
your start-up applications.
http://www.ubuntumini.com/2009/03/installing-ubuntu-netbook-remix-in.html

Original comment by [email protected] on 21 Aug 2009 at 8:38

[GoogleCodeExporter]

[deleted comment]

[GoogleCodeExporter]

I will not be personally tackling this feature request (lack of time and 
motivation etc.), but 
if someone provides a patch that complies to the following points, it would be 
nice:
- The behavior must be *rock solid*. No false positives, inconsistent states or 
duplicate entries 
in gnome session should be allowed. And I'm somehow thinking that achieving all 
that in a 
reliable way may not be trivial (I tend to think the reason why 
gnome-session-properties exists 
i s that apps don't have to reimplement the wheel all the time), probably?)
- This must not add a lot of complexity to the code (yet another thing to 
debug!)

Original comment by [email protected] on 5 Sep 2009 at 4:51

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Also related: issue #280

Original comment by [email protected] on 21 Sep 2009 at 10:39

[GoogleCodeExporter]

Original comment by [email protected] on 16 Apr 2011 at 5:18

• Changed state: Opinion