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putonghua.js adds derivation of voiceless checked tones 清音入聲, fine-tunes derivation of chong 崇母, chang 常母, and chuan initials 船母 | putonghua.js 补充清音入聲的推導,微調崇常船三母的推導 #55

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merged 3 commits into from
Mar 8, 2024

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JwietPuj-Drin
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  1. The current version of putonghua.js leaves blank the derivation results of voiceless checked tones 清音入聲. But according to the Scheme for the Chinese Phonetic Alphabet 漢語拼音方案, no tone mark is regarded as neutral tone 輕聲, which obviously does not conform to the linguistic reality. Try to supplement it as yinping (level tone) 陰平 according to Liu Haiyang's answer , and imitate unt.js to write extension options.

  2. According to unt's answer, the derivation of chong 崇母, chang 常母, and chuan initials 船母 still has room for improvement. Try to modify the default derivation and write extension options.


  1. 現版本的 putonghua.js 對清音入聲的推導結果作留空處理。但根據《漢語拼音方案》,不標調視為輕聲調,這顯然不符合語言現實。試根據 刘海阳的回答 補為陰平,並模仿 unt.js 編寫擴展選項。

  2. unt 的回答 ,崇常船三母的推導還有提升空間。試修改默認推導並編寫擴展選項。

…tunes derivation of chong 崇母, chang 常母, and chuan initials 船母 | `putonghua.js` 补充清音入聲的推導,微調崇常船三母的推導

1. The current version of `putonghua.js` leaves blank the derivation results of voiceless checked tones 清音入聲. But according to the *Scheme for the Chinese Phonetic Alphabet* 漢語拼音方案, no tone mark is regarded as neutral tone 輕聲, which obviously does not conform to the linguistic reality. Try to supplement it as yinping (level tone) 陰平 according to [Liu Haiyang's answer](https://www.zhihu.com/question/30370012/answer/533234460 "北京话的入声为什么会派入三个不同的声调? - 刘海阳的回答 - 知乎") , and imitate `unt.js` to write extension options.

2. According to [unt's answer](https://www.zhihu.com/question/526195183/answer/2425807330 "为何中古的dʑ ʑ和普通话读音的对应似乎是反的(即dʑ > ʂ、ʑ > ʈʂ)? - UntPhesoca的回答 - 知乎"), the derivation of chong 崇母, chang 常母, and chuan initials 船母 still has room for improvement. Try to modify the default derivation and write extension options.

---

1. 現版本的 `putonghua.js` 對清音入聲的推導結果作留空處理。但根據《漢語拼音方案》,不標調視為輕聲調,這顯然不符合語言現實。試根據 [刘海阳的回答](https://www.zhihu.com/question/30370012/answer/533234460 "北京话的入声为什么会派入三个不同的声调? - 刘海阳的回答 - 知乎") 補為陰平,並模仿 `unt.js` 編寫擴展選項。

2. 據 [unt 的回答](https://www.zhihu.com/question/526195183/answer/2425807330 "为何中古的dʑ ʑ和普通话读音的对应似乎是反的(即dʑ > ʂ、ʑ > ʈʂ)? - UntPhesoca的回答 - 知乎") ,崇常船三母的推導還有提升空間。試修改默認推導並編寫擴展選項。
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@graphemecluster
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另外我比較偏好用 is`入聲` 把關於 清聲母入聲調分派層次 的一整段括起來,再用 switch 進行比較

我都是在挑剔,請見諒😅

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這個我也在掙扎,因為會多一層縮進

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@JwietPuj-Drin
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@graphemecluster 改好了👌

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真快呢!這個應該是最後一個了(

putonghua.js Outdated
Comment on lines 223 to 228
if (選項.常母平聲陰聲韻聲母和船母平聲聲母 === 'ch') {
if (is`(常母 陰聲韻 或 船母) 平聲`) 聲母 = 'ch';
}
if (選項.常母平聲陰聲韻聲母和船母平聲聲母 === 'sh') {
if (is`(常母 陰聲韻 或 船母) 平聲`) 聲母 = 'sh';
}
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Suggested change
if (選項.常母平聲陰聲韻聲母和船母平聲聲母 === 'ch') {
if (is`(常母 陰聲韻 或 船母) 平聲`) 聲母 = 'ch';
}
if (選項.常母平聲陰聲韻聲母和船母平聲聲母 === 'sh') {
if (is`(常母 陰聲韻 或 船母) 平聲`) 聲母 = 'sh';
}
if (is`(常母 陰聲韻 或 船母) 平聲`) 聲母 = 選項.常母平聲陰聲韻聲母和船母平聲聲母;

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……現在是選項和常量都是拼音的寫法,那要是後期介入了 IPA 或註音等其他表現形式會不會出現問題呢?

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介入了 IPA 的話選項也會跟着寫成 IPA

@ayaka14732 ayaka14732 merged commit b5a986a into nk2028:main Mar 8, 2024
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啊,差點忘掉了,我覺得 @author 那裏應該加上你的名字
@ayaka14732 幫手

@judith04
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@JwietPuj-Drin

我想您对于您所引用的那则材料“古代清音入声字在北京話的声調,凡是沒有异讀的,就采用北京已經通行的讀法。凡是有异讀的,假若其中有一个是陰平調,原則上就采用陰平,例如:“息”ㄒㄧ(xī)“击”ㄐㄧ(jī)。否則逐字考慮,采用比較通行……”的理解恐有偏误。该材料显示“采用陰平”的前提是“有异讀”且“其中有一个是陰平調”,这个前提实际只适用于很少的一部分字,毕竟大多数字都是只有单一的文读或白读,“有异讀”的字终究是少数,所谓读阴平的“新文读”就更少见了。

我用 qieyun-python 和 Rime 地球拼音的字典简单写了一个统计程序,得到普通话不同类型声母的入声字声调今读如下:

全清塞: {'2': 705, '4': 367, '1': 212, '3': 117}
次清塞: {'4': 520, '1': 193, '2': 139, '3': 56}
清擦: {'4': 567, '1': 233, '2': 141, '3': 65}
影母: {'4': 205, '1': 50, '2': 26, '3': 22}
次浊: {'4': 1079, '2': 82, '1': 53, '3': 41}
全浊: {'2': 826, '4': 335, '1': 61, '3': 47}

以上统计结果显然表明,将普通话清入字默认推导为阴平并不合适。

@JwietPuj-Drin
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@JwietPuj-Drin

我想您对于您所引用的那则材料“古代清音入声字在北京話的声調,凡是沒有异讀的,就采用北京已經通行的讀法。凡是有异讀的,假若其中有一个是陰平調,原則上就采用陰平,例如:“息”ㄒㄧ(xī)“击”ㄐㄧ(jī)。否則逐字考慮,采用比較通行……”的理解恐有偏误。该材料显示“采用陰平”的前提是“有异讀”且“其中有一个是陰平調”,这个前提实际只适用于很少的一部分字,毕竟大多数字都是只有单一的文读或白读,“有异讀”的字终究是少数,所谓读阴平的“新文读”就更少见了。

我用 qieyun-python 和 Rime 地球拼音的字典简单写了一个统计程序,得到普通话不同类型声母的入声字声调今读如下:

全清塞: {'2': 705, '4': 367, '1': 212, '3': 117}
次清塞: {'4': 520, '1': 193, '2': 139, '3': 56}
清擦: {'4': 567, '1': 233, '2': 141, '3': 65}
影母: {'4': 205, '1': 50, '2': 26, '3': 22}
次浊: {'4': 1079, '2': 82, '1': 53, '3': 41}
全浊: {'2': 826, '4': 335, '1': 61, '3': 47}

以上统计结果显然表明,将普通话清入字默认推导为阴平并不合适。

@judith04

是的,您的批评很对。我也曾短暂犹豫于“理论规范”还是“现实多数”,当时我的思考路线是——

  1. “音变无例外”是历史语言学的基本假设,这就要求我们应当在决定 清入聲 这个音韵地位上的推导要有足够的理论依据;
  2. 刘海阳的回答 看来,语法性要素和各种“通行”“习惯”在北京话入派倾向变动中起到了重要作用,这是目前 qieyun-dataqieyun-js 所不能描述的。

而推导为阴平、依据给到语委的材料就能自圆了。统计多数的方法似乎合平山久雄模型之 C 层,但不好解释为何还有近半数的其它分派,在“为什么是 C 而不是 A B D E ”的依据上也稍显乏力。

但现在想来,统计为大数的,不正是“通行”和“习惯”么,不也正和了语委材料的前提吗?

我想在下一次 PR (可能是添加国际音标或是零声母类型)时同时修正这一点。或是请您和 @graphemecluster @ayaka14732 即时 PR 改订。

graphemecluster added a commit that referenced this pull request Apr 22, 2024
* 加入 #55 之作者
* 修正通攝入聲字韻母推導
* 於未開啟「更多選項」時,不推導陰入聲調
* 修正選項標點符號
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4 participants