sile vs context lmtx vs mckenna's jsbox

[goyalyashpal]

hi!

i had several doubts and questions... i held on to these for quite a long time, but couldn't reach a conclusion & as digital (& programmatic) typesetting is fascinating & very personal for me, i couldn't give up on it either.

so, finally thought to ask. hope u won't mind.

not considering #1698 as that question has a particular goal in mind (abstraction: lyx/md), i want an overview, a map if you will of how-&-why things are.

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A.

1. is libtexpdf as a standalone library merged upstream now? as the potent mentioned by Simon in this 2015 FOSDEM talk
2. the context-LMTX from 2019 now has several overlapping areas with sile:
   • Lua & XML support
   • grids & layers
   • lack of latex packages support 😝
3. so, what is the difference in context-lmtx and sile now? the major one seems to be:
   • frame balancing,
   • citations/footnotes (Complex PDFs via SILE vs CSS #1316 (comment))
4. reading the sile-0.14.13 manual, examples, the converters (5.3.3), dropcaps (5.4.1), leaders (5.6.1) & snake justification (lol), gutenberg (5.4.6), flowed text, multiple scripts etc. seem interesting - i don't know if they're possible in context or not

is there any chance that context-lmtx & sile may join hands? would it be beneficial? why or why not?

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B.

Similar to how (click to expand)

• kotlin compiles to java bytecode; hence can use existing java libs
• python extensions (pypy, mypy, hylang, etc) compile to python bytecode; hence can use python infra
• zig has same ABI as C; hence can use existing C infra
• typescript compiles to javascript; hence can use existing JS infra

... why not such similar thing can be done for TeX?

• isn't there some common thing that these all things produce so that these new tex-derivation things can interoperate as well?
• like, there has to have some common thing which all these write while making a pdf (or other output forms), so, why can't these be like, used side-by-side?
• say: sile: i have compiled the part upto here, hey latex package, now you spit your output.

as i don't have much problem trying new things, new syntax, new paradigm, whatever - it's just that i need packages support. and lack of interoperability is a huge hurdle in this aspect.

it doesn't matter what anyone feels about legacy systems - the libraries developed there should be available in newer systems, that's how new things gain traction; and that is how we progress. the 4 above examples of new languages illustrate that.

developing new things from scratch alone won't help much in general area outside of niches.

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C.

tectonic is a builder for tex? what is this jsbox thing?
can any of these or other such thing help sile in any way? or allow it to take benefit of existing latex packages?

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additional context which may help while answering:

• my xp in programmatic typesetting is with latex, asciidoc, md/html.
• i like FLOSS.
• my problem with latex is that:
  • it's not very ide-toolable - there're next to none diagnostic tools available for it. the errors are ambiguous in wordings, and hard to resolve
  • it always shows bad bad box overflow error on my template file & i couldn't diagnose what's causing it - nor is it percievable in output pdf.
  • despite using it mostly successfully for well over 18 months, i still am not confident about it... it's based on string replacement and it all feels like a hack. Just Like C preprocessor.
• my use area so far is technical things in maths/computers/electronics: so, equations, flowcharts, code listings, circuit and drawings
• and ofcourse the essential things like tables, contents, figures/images, footnotes/references

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[Omikhleia]

A1 is easy: no, as far as I know.

I'm afraid the rest would need to be asked to "context-LTMX" or TeX users -- AFAIK, I am not sure I understand any of the underlying questions.

[Omikhleia]

Closing the discussion: no feedback since last answer in Nov. 2023.
As noted, it "would need to be asked to "context-LTMX" or TeX users " -- so it is beyond the reach of SILE.
Please feel free to open a new discussion or issue with a better defined scope.

[alerque]

This is such a rambling pile of unrelated topics and tangents I don't think there is any way to even dig into it. Even the things brought up for comparison are a hodge-podge of apple slices and orange seeds.

You might be interested in my Polytype project for some direct comparisons between typesetting systems in as close to an apples-to-apples fashion as can be mustered.

If you have specific questions or observations please open one discussion at a time for each distinct topic.