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Agenda for 2024-10-30 CG meeting (#691)
* Agenda for 2024-10-30 CG meeting * Updated minutes for 2024-10-30 CG meeting --------- Co-authored-by: Hadrian Zbarcea <[email protected]>
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| # W3C Solid Community Group: Weekly | ||
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| * Date: 2024-10-30T14:00:00Z | ||
| * Call: https://meet.jit.si/solid-cg | ||
| * Chat: https://matrix.to/#/#solid_specification:gitter.im | ||
| * Repository: https://github.com/solid/specification | ||
| * Status: Published | ||
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| ## Present | ||
| * Hadrian Zbarcea | ||
| * [elf Pavlik](https://elf-pavlik.hackers4peace.net) | ||
| * Jesse Wright | ||
| * Erich Bremer | ||
| * [Ted Thibodeau](https://github.com/TallTed) (he/him) (OpenLink Software) | ||
| * Jeff Zucker (late) | ||
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| --- | ||
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| ## Announcements | ||
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| * [ODI open forum](https://www.eventbrite.co.uk/e/odi-and-solid-building-a-future-where-data-works-for-everyone-tickets-1062010284349) | ||
| * New Matrix channel: `#solid-odi:matrix.org` | ||
| * Reminder of [E2EE meeting on Nov 5th](https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/b277ff65-0aad-425e-bd1d-64758cd4547a/20241022T140000/) | ||
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| ### Meeting Guidelines | ||
| * [W3C Solid Community Group Calendar](https://www.w3.org/groups/cg/solid/calendar). | ||
| * [W3C Solid Community Group Meeting Guidelines](https://github.com/w3c-cg/solid/blob/main/meetings/README.md). | ||
| * No audio or video recording, or automated transcripts without consent. Meetings are transcribed and made public. If consent is withheld by anyone, recording/retention must not occur. | ||
| * Join queue to talk. | ||
| * Topics can be proposed at the bottom of the agenda to be discussed as time allows. Make it known if a topic is urgent or cannot be postponed. | ||
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| ### Participation and Code of Conduct | ||
| * [Join the W3C Solid Community Group](https://www.w3.org/community/solid/join), [W3C Account Request](http://www.w3.org/accounts/request), [W3C Community Contributor License Agreement](https://www.w3.org/community/about/agreements/cla/) | ||
| * [Solid Code of Conduct](https://github.com/solid/process/blob/main/code-of-conduct.md), [Positive Work Environment at W3C: Code of Conduct](https://www.w3.org/policies/code-of-conduct/) | ||
| * Operating principle for effective participation is to allow access across disabilities, across country borders, and across time. Feedback on tooling and meeting timing is welcome. | ||
| * If this is your first time, welcome! please introduce yourself. | ||
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| ### Scribes | ||
| * Jesse Wright | ||
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| ### Introductions | ||
| * HZ: No introductions | ||
| * EB: Introduced before, now on LWS WG group representing Stony Brook University | ||
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| ### What's going on at IIW | ||
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| * HZ: [IIW (Internet Identity Workshop)](https://internetidentityworkshop.com/) in California this week has a lot of interest in Solid. If you have anything you want conveyed to them, let Hadrian know. | ||
| * EP: When did this start? | ||
| * HZ: Monday, and traditionally day before IIW is VRM (vendor relationship management) day — since managed by Doc Searls and Phil Windley. There are lots of interesting *"intention economy"* conversations happening; you can also join the project [VRM email list](https://cyber.harvard.edu/lists/info/projectvrm). [*The Intention Economy* is a book published in 2012](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Intention_Economy); the idea is that consumers broadcast their intent to vendors who then bid to meet their needs. At VRM day, presentation was from Consumer Reports who wants to work on tools with community. Relation to Solid is (1) Tim was inspired to build Solid based on the ideas in the book (2) if you want to do the intent casting, data needs to be in some location and shared on a platform (not scaleable) or via a protocol — and Solid is a top contender. We need to do work to get more engaged with the (friendly) VRM community. | ||
| * EP: We had meetings with various personal clouds, e.g., NextClouds, who were interested in this kind of stuff at the time. Good to have this kind of interaction with the customer and provider. [CfA (Conversations for Action)](https://conversationsforaction.com/cfa-playground) could fit well with this because it describes states for interactions between user and provider. | ||
| * HZ: DIDs and [DIDcomm](https://didcomm.org/) were also discussed. Going to talk to DIF (decentralised identity foundation) today, lots of interest in Solid now LWS is created, and path to standardisation is clear. | ||
| * HZ: I think that ODI should take on more of a role in engaging with these kind of entities (e.g., DIDcomm) and doing community building rather than Inrupt. | ||
| * HZ: WebID CG is closed, but required | ||
| * JW: Jacopo led that WG, he is in LWS — does he want to set it back up? | ||
| * HZ: I spoke to him, he doesn't know. | ||
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| --- | ||
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| ## Topics | ||
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| ### ODI Stewardship of the Solid Project | ||
| * HZ: Does anyone have questions? | ||
| * EP: What is scope of call on Nov 8? | ||
| * JW: Primarily Q&A | ||
| * HW: Note it will be early for some US folks, but same problem exists for LWS call | ||
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| ### Farming C2C | ||
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| (continue after: Maxime: ... I would like to propose some work item next.) | ||
| (postponded) | ||
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| ### Apps | ||
| HZ: We might want to talk more with NGOs for the development of applications for multiple parties — if you have ideas or communities that might be interested please share. | ||
| EP: Don't want to create perception that Solid Apps are completely different than pre-Solid Apps. Existing apps, including open, enterprise, etc., can start with existing DB and migrate to Solid — we should engage with those kinds of people. Especially given there is good UX out there in the field that people like and are familiar with. There is also misconception that Solid Apps have to run in the browser, and have no form of server processing — we need to recognise that it is fine to have Solid clients running on the server. This means that some existing apps would not need to change their front-end clients at all, but just change over their backend infrastructure. | ||
| EP: [I spoke to Joseph around data grants and how data browsers work](https://github.com/solid/data-interoperability-panel/issues/325). We discussed how to have good security whilst maintaining a good user experience. If you have ideas, please chime in on the issue. | ||
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| ### Special Topic Meetings | ||
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| EP: E2EE meeting is next week. I would like to also have a meeting about DIDs. NextGraph is using DIDs, currently coupling a bit to IP address which can be problematic. LiveServer is also using DIDs. Would like to invite those people. Also want to understand currently available resolution methods — and what are the trade-offs should we migrate to use them. | ||
| HZ: What are the action items? I talked to quite a few people including the [keri](https://keri.one/) folks — its used by [vLEI](https://www.gleif.org/en/about-lei/introducing-the-legal-entity-identifier-lei/) and in ISO standardisation process. KERI is the only DID method I know that enables delegation and transfer of identity based on public/private keys and key rotations are done using Merkle trees. | ||
| eP: Is this alternative to WebIDs or all resources? | ||
| HZ: WebIDs, storage IDs | ||
| eP: In NextGraph, all resources are identified with DIDs. | ||
| HZ: There is not much clarity on path of LWS. We are currently clarifying use cases. | ||
| EP: Back to actions. We should have meetings with LiveServer, NextGraph, & other projects similar to or spinning off from Solid. | ||
| HZ: I will organise an STM with somebody from the DID community who can give us an overview and provide a chance to ask questions. | ||
| EP: +1 | ||
| EB: +1 | ||
| TT: +1 | ||
| JW: +1 | ||
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| ACTION: HZ to organize meeting with DID community | ||
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| eP: Universal Resolver. https://dev.uniresolver.io/ | ||
| eP: Please say hello to Markus Sabadello if you see him at IIW https://ngi.eu/ngi-evangelists/markus-sabadello/ | ||
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| ### Solid Wallets | ||
| HZ: Can be interesting channel of data for Pods. If you have ideas let me know because I am working on this hands on. Solid Data wallet was accepted at the Open Wallet Foundation. Inrupt has no intention of having a wallet product. We have ideas about infrastructures for wallets which is basically Solid, and we see wallets as a use case for wallet adoption. | ||
| HZ: ... there are 2 types of wallets. One that lives on your phone, and one that lives in the cloud. There are other organizations that have other ideas of how wallets are stored (e.g., IPFS). We don't know what the API will be; eventually the OWF will land on something that serves their community well. We wanted to start comms with LWF and tap into that community. | ||
| eP: Wallets are usually about digital credentials, verifiable credentials, etc. Some people will see it as generic data pocket that stores videos, etc. How do you see it? | ||
| HZ: In community, mostly credentials, driven by where money is — e.g., that's what you want to exchange in Europe. Inrupt wants a wallet to store pretty much anything; we talked about medical projects; there is a project with news commons that stores news. I think wallets could be more general purpose but I have no idea what purpose it will be or why. Thats why I mentioned strengthening relations with communities interested in Solid. | ||
| eP: Gut feeling is that wallets should be kept for credentials; not making it a generic resource server / data storage. | ||
| HZ: That goes to definition of wallet. LWF acknowledged there is no consensus of wallet definition in their community — it is an open community, if you want to follow them. | ||
| JZ: The PASS project in Solid is using wallets for homeless people where they can store all of their credentials. It might be interesting to talk to them about how they use their wallets outside of financial sector efforts. | ||
| eP: FedCM/FedID working group are working on adding digital credential API to their charter. | ||
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| ### Monetization of Solid Apps | ||
| HZ: One of the monetisation models in the past was to sell data. I've had interesting conversations with people in industry who want to move away from this model — especially due to GDPR pressures. Because companies don't want to sell data anymore, they don't want to host it, either. So they are asking how they can use data without storing it. This interest comes especially from startups who want to build an app, without incurring additional costs, e.g., cybersecurity and data insurance. This would provide opportunities for Pod hosting to pop up. | ||
| EP: There is also monetisation of content. Content creators can use any apps they want — which they monetise through advertisment or subscription. | ||
| HZ: I brought this up because people have come to me asking how to monetise specifically as they want to build buisnesses around it. | ||
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