The-Extinctionati-74.txt

okay so we are now

recording oh cool just so everybody

knows normally there's a announcement in

the

channel um I'll just deal with any

background noise on my

end but

yeah cool

so I'm expecting oh there's

Beast hey Beast

hi yeah he's got his mic muted for the

moment but um yeah Beast I uh I sent you

a

um sort of a meme about wolves and them

having invented the game of

fetch uh they were playing it when we

discovered them apparently rather than

having to wait for humans with hands to

throw sticks for them

uh they were doing that on their

own and then

recently

uh Beast oh yeah yeah yeah that's

awesome um he said they play it with

each other in

Ravens uh I've been in touch with a

feral human in the outback

of um Quebec who I'm hoping to interview

maybe sometime in the coming week Zano o

and zanco is a

feral human he

lives out in the nothing in a cabin he

built surrounded by animals that hunt

humans and stuff and I thought you might

find it interesting that when we were

talking a couple nights ago I've known

him for about 10 years we've had a few

long conversations he's uh he's very

unusual he's Croatian older Croatian

guy and we were talking other T night

and he said um I I don't have much time

I have

appointment like oh yeah you know yes

have

appointment okay so you're out in the

middle of of nothing in the snow in

Quebec and you have appointment it's

like yes I have wolves there are four

wolves in front about half mile away

there are seven to the left there are

two to the right there are four behind

me about four miles I have to go meet

them we talk like okay so you talking to

the wolves like yes we talk I'm like

well so you know I asked him

um well I'd be really you know I have a

request he said what is it I said you

know I want you to ask the Wolves if

they will come to me in my dreaming and

teach me wolf things and he said oh for

for that I must find white wolf Shaman

wolf I only see him you know once twice

a year but I will remember it ask him

okay so I'm like what do you talk about

and he's like well we don't talk and I

and I said but you know you said that

that you're going to go talk with them

he said I did not mean Talk I meant we

dance around and howl and go crazy

together in the snow

so yeah apparently zanos is out there

with some you know

undomesticated wild

canines and I'm really hoping to get an

interview with him because he's a wildly

unusual human the be

I I said

um so you know you you have friends out

there he said I don't have friends I

prefer enmity and

isolation no no no that's not what he

said he said he said I prefer animosity

and

isolation was very important

difference did you ask him

oh I know why I

mean it's for the same reason we're

having this meeting right

now um yeah he he's well aware that what

the humans do in cities is has very

little to do with being alive or being

human or being intelligent or anything

so he just he doesn't want any part of

that at all the only part of

that City life is Thoroughly alienating

and isolating I find yeah yeah so he

wants no part of that he's married I

asked him you know zono when was the

last time you kiss Woman except not in

that accent he said oh yeah last week

like oh yeah he's like yeah like who

he's like my wife see her on Facebook my

page she come she come out here like oh

great that's awesome I'm glad it's like

why you ask about this

and I said well you know I have to

answer him very carefully or he'll he'll

mess with

me I said

well a woman's Love Is

Like Oxygen or the stars in the night

sky or the Cry of a wild animal you

cannot

identify and he said oh I understand

your point

what do you think his reason for messing

with uh well your words I think

uh weirdly and somehow accidentally

certainly not

intentionally um I managed to acquire

his respect and

admiration uh based on my posts on

Facebook which of

course as any of you who see those posts

know have almost nothing to do

with anything personal about me and have

a lot to do

with Insight or cognition

language and he used to teach math at

the University maybe in Calgary but I'm

not sure and uh so he was a math teacher

and he feels uh essentially assaulted by

he like I I did not

choose I did not choose mathematics

mathematics was forced upon

me theories come to me in the night and

harass me they beat me up in my

mind um but yeah I think I acquired his

respect

so when we talk it's a bit it it it

resembles something more like a Zen

Mondo between us you know a couple of

Zen teachers or something right where

we're kind of you know he he

said you know he asked me questions like

tell me something you don't

know and I

said I don't think there is anything

that I actually know and he says that is

something you know tell me something you

don't

know what did you say to him I

said well no what I'm trying to say is

that I don't really trust knowledge much

at all I understand how it works but I I

don't I don't think it's

authoritative right

um and so the last time we talked a

couple days ago he said

um what is the

truth and I said I don't I don't

remember exactly what I said but it was

something

like the truth is like a ray of light

from the Divine that is both

urgently pursued and simultaneously

[Music]

unknowable and then he said then I said

um swano was like yes like what is a

lie and he got a funny look on his face

and he said no one ever asked me this

question before no one no one asked me

this I'm going to have to meditate on

that I mean he could have just said

human civilization it's a big

lie we were never civilized we're not

civilized now and never civilized

before well I mean that would be an

interesting thing for us to talk about

too what is what is it letter I mean I

can say what I would think about it but

what what do you think about

it

um you know I don't want to be uh it's

the right

word I don't want to be a

kerogen but I think that if we're about

if we intend to have a deep topic excuse

me a deep uh conversation about

something we should probably we should

we should resist the urge to believe

that we know what words

mean because they certainly don't mean

their senses in the dictionary um so

what we have to do if we're going to be

intelligent together is to playfully and

perhaps

cunningly um

explore why we're asking something and

what we would What in in this

conversation we intend to mean by

certain terms does that make

sense sure it's like I was talking with

Lee last night

and we were talking we we actually

talked about 19 other things we I'm not

sure we actually got to this topic

but

um I I

introduced the idea of the relationship

of intellect to

dreaming and I I sort of knew I sort of

knew what I meant by intellect but I

quickly realized that in order for this

conversation to become interesting or

meaningful

um we'd have to Define our terms much

more carefully especially that like what

is meant by by

intellect did you set a want

something as a

definition

um no because we ended up pursuing

uh wild other topics such

as snake cheese Medusa even the snake in

Genesis women milking

snakes Jesus is actually cheese bait we

just mispronounced his name because it

was actually originally

cheeses um the human addiction to

cheese uh how people really get

depressed if they if if it is if it

becomes clear the cheese will not be

available

um you know you go to a party there's no

cheese you're out of there I mean uh

yeah we had some crazy I took some notes

and I'm going to try and write a comedy

routine about the snake milk thing

because it has a lot to do with what

Almond Hillman's talking about um with

the Medusa and Meda and the origins of

medicine and stuff and I think those

ladies they were milk and snakes I don't

mean to be pornographic about it but

they were straight up milk in

snakes uh and snakes have

milk well even if we suppose that snakes

don't have milk so first of all most a

lot of people don't know this but

rattlesnakes give give birth to live

young um

yeah but

uh even if we decide that you can't

actually get milk from snake

tits um there are two other important

possibilities and the first one is the

milk of their anciently evolved

intelligence and

memory and the second one which is

straight up physically

real is that humans milk them for the

Venom to produce

antidotes right and that Venom is often

milky yeah they call that milk milk

exactly so you know metaphorically or

actually right right yeah okay but yeah

I guy one I think it was Stanley

superhumans really neat show from some

years back who injected himself with

snake venom uh one kind was actually

black mamba Venom which is supposed to

render you like neurologically paralyzed

and dead within half an hour or

something and he was able to basically

not have his brain be negatively

affected by it so he would like sit in

front of the

camera with a nurse beside them and uh

inject himself with black mama Venom

quite a lot and

uh other than a lesion at the sight of

injection he seems perfectly fine which

I found

interesting um it's well known that

ancient people and there are a few

people walking around today I think

there's one guy who's fairly famous it

could be the guy you're talking about

might be a different guy as

well um but what alen Hilman regularly

talks about is women who were both

immune to the Venoms of various lethal

snakes um via the tiated introduction of

Venoms into their bloodstream over time

and could also convey immunity to these

Venoms uh which is at least in one place

perhaps with Paul in the Bible

discussed as one of the gifts of the

Spirit of Christ or or the Divine

beings um to be immune to snake

venom do you think and just because I

don't know how this just information I

had this was explained I mean I mean I

know

homeopathically this is just me guessing

you know homeopathically you can have

not one element of

the The Cure which is actually would if

you did have any elements of it be the

cause of

similar experiences or problems that the

body has but with these home

Homeopathy you can very often get rid of

the very problem that the actual

elements in the Cure which is say

titrated or something to the point that

there's not one molecule at it left and

I'm kind of wondering if

um I know energetic healing exists and I

wonder if somebody who had exposed

themselves to the snake Venoms and I

guess at the time that was something

people were being bitten regularly by

snakes I guess it wouldn't been such a

big deal um you know can be in a similar

way that somebody Who develops an

immunity no longer has any of it in them

but has the experience of having it in

them and whether if you're a Healer you

can energetically

convey that Essence so to speak of the

experience to another person I mean did

they talk about

how you know was there

anything how that was conve um yes so uh

you know vaccines began in a similar

fashion um they were aware of the

excuse me some humans in ancient Greece

were aware of this uh technology there's

also stories of um cow herd women in

India perhaps 3,000 years

ago

um taking the pus from smallpox lesions

on

cows um deluding it placing it on

bandages scratching people's skin

surfaces and wrapping them in the

bandages to

convey immunity to small poox or at

least a reduced response

[Music]

um as far as Homeopathy

goes you know we have a huge problem

there

because actual studies of it have not

revealed any

effect um so if you know if we're paying

attention to the science realizing that

science isn't always the right LS to

look

with there's a problem there

um also there's another problem which is

that if Homeopathy were real what would

have to cause the medicine to become

medicinal is not merely the exposure to

the substance because if if if the

homeopathic

um theorem was

true you know everything we eat

heat would have

homeopathic levels of billions of

substances in it right which would cause

which would leave us with two problems

the first one

being in that kind of a situation how is

it that the little pills actually have

any effect at all when we're living in a

home in a manifold of swarming homeopath

homeopathic

energetic uh signatures

right see the problem well well I

actually don't actually see that

necessarily as a problem because the way

I look at it is that um we are prepared

in other words we've grown up with and

we have existed with eating things that

are of value to us and that we use the

necessary parts of we're not you know

assuming processed foods or anything but

you know but the Whole Foods we we do

that the substances in that are used in

Homeopathy are are are not those things

they are actually poisons that we

avoid and that our experience I mean if

we did run into some of those things and

eat them we could die potentially or I

mean that the it's a simil it's supposed

to be

similar whatever would cause something

similar to the disease or the problem

that you're treating with Homeopathy is

in itself if it were ingested

potentially poisonous and the reason and

that according to Homeopathy and I'm not

well studied on it I have had positive

results but um but the according to

Homeopathy those are the substances that

are basically

potentized and actually supposed to be

the most potent to Homeopathy by the

degree to which they are kind of

shaken into the sugar mixture or

whatever um to the point that there is

literally not one molecule left of the

actual substance so it seems to be that

it's the memory in essence the the

signature of the substance that's

remains in Homeopathy and Homeopathy

from my understanding of how it works is

the remedies or the the cures or what it

you know what it offers

is the thing that if you did ingest it

as a poison or toxin would cause the

very symptoms that you're trying to

alleviate so it's re it's it's a

different kind of a thing it's the it's

the signature so to speak of of it and

if you I don't know you know if you pay

much attention to you know to the whole

Emoto stuff or what you think about that

with the water

raining you know the quality of even a

thought um or a word or a whatever and

its structure you know it it basically

supposes that there is a sensitivity to

things that can encode that kind of

thing so that's my understanding of what

Homeopathy is and this is just me it's

my little commercial for ocela Cox and

I'm I have not had a flu in over 30

years and I had home Pard me aunist tell

me about Cox many years ago and um if I

take that at the first sign of anything

I don't get it so I've never had a flu

shot I never had a flu not in 30 years

and before that I would have them maybe

once twice you know once a year once

every couple years so to me it seems to

work because every time I do take it it

it literally gets rid of it

so okay well that was a that was an

interesting

presentation um so first of all the pr

one of the or the originary principles

of medicine is precisely the principle

you describe here where an extremely

small titration of a substance that

would be harmful produces the opposite

result and therefore can act as an

antidote to that

substance um however it should be clear

that the one thing the oxytocin or

whatever that stuff's called does not

contain is flu

viruses so I'm not sure I'm it's

symptoms it's what they Homeopathy is

got different yeah yeah let me let me

continue so um the concept in Homeopathy

is that you place one or more

substances I mean there's a vast lexicon

of symptoms and diseases and then there

are along with those symptoms and

diseases are the substances that are

used homeopathically to treat them and

then um those substances are placed in a

solution

extremely M minute

um uh titrations or dilutions of those

substances extremely minute are placed

in like a 5 gallon you know container of

water and then I don't know some one

droplet of that it's placed in a second

5 gallon container then one and mixed

and then one droplet of that and so

forth and so

on now they make the pills out of the

resulting stuff now I think um you

either ignored or you just didn't care

about what I said which was that if

Homeopathy if Homeopathy were

real then the unimaginable cloud of

extremely minute amounts of every

substance on Earth that we are swimming

in would constantly be affecting us and

even if it weren't how could it possibly

be

true that the minor minute amounts of

basic of zero amount actually what what

you have is energetic memory of some

substance in a pill right so there's

nothing in that pill um energetic me

memory of some substance well we are

swimming in ging I didn't get it yeah we

are swimming in G trillions of

situations where the energetic memory of

substances is everywhere in every glass

of water we drink in every piece of food

we eat in the air we breathe in

everything that we're exposed to all day

long so that um if Homeopathy were true

all of those things should affect us

right and and problematically more

problematically how possibly could the

non-existent amount of energetic memory

of a substance in the homeopathic pill

overcome the noise

floor of all that other

stuff right there's this huge vast noise

floor that would be Monument I mean it's

like Thunder versus not even a whisper

no I understand what you're saying okay

I don't know the answer to that of

course but I would imagine that one way

possibly and I don't know that this is

is the answer to that but one way would

be that um any of those other things

like if you take a homeopathic remedy

for some you know let's say you took

other ones that other than the spec the

specific one that you needed for your

spe that would caused your specific

symptoms if you took any of the other

ones they wouldn't harm you but they

also wouldn't do anything for you on the

other hand I don't know that in that M

morass of everything that's swimming

around you is necessarily the one

element or the several elements as

combined that would be necessary that's

the only thing I could think that would

explain oh actually I can easily think

of another thing that we exp okay um so

the humans uh when they think about

things they do so in a very stupid array

of

ways and by the way hi Risa nice to see

you um yeah they do so in a very stupid

way array of ways and one of the stupid

things they do and I'm not trying to be

mean by the use of this word but the

stupidity itself is actually quite cruel

to us um is

they they think as

if uh the power is in the

substance the substance has a mean

mechanical Power to cause effects in the

humans right that's how they think

that's how uh allopathic medicine

works um we we depend on a mechanical

effect in the body of a

substance but it the weird problem with

that is the idea that humans are

separate from

nature um is someone filing their nails

sounds like it it

does

um yeah

so the all of our all of our modern

knowledge ways possibly including

Homeopathy suppose that humans are

separate from nature and they're using

little machines from nature to come into

the human thing and and change things

around

um

so that can't be true let's just be

absolutely Ely clear there's no

separation between humans and nature

there's more

separation between um a droplet of the

ocean flying up in the air and the and

the ocean itself there's more separation

there than there is between humans and

nature humans are nature whatever nature

may be right but the humans don't think

that way and they like to think

mechanically like we're a separate thing

over here and then there's all that

other stuff called

nature including Homeopathy right any

other thing so so the easy solution I

can see is that the the

conspiracy

between the patient the homeopath the

homeopathic

practitioner the water the

substance the history of the homeopathic

idea all those things combine to produce

an actual effect that I could understand

right which you don't have that

conspiracy well you're saying it's

basically a placebo effect that's what

you're saying I think yeah I'm not

actually quite saying that I'm saying

something

weirder um we if we if we allow that a

placebo is equivalent to the things I

said previously the that the effect is

caused by the the kind of thing the

conspiracy and all that I said

previously then yeah I'm saying the

placebo effect but I mean um you know

there's this peculiar document on medium

it's called Notes From

Beyond and it describes the history of a

set of messages I've been receiving now

for some months after having received a

decryption

key um and in those messages and there's

a vast number of

them um there's a video on the placebo

effect that's quite staggering

uh it's probably not exactly the same as

like it's not so shocking as like

someone had their leg cut off and then

they they met a Healer and and the

Healer said three words to them and they

grew a new

leg right but it's pretty close um there

are instances of sudden inexplicable

healing in humans that are really

profound and excusing them as the quote

placebo effect is a dumb idea because

what do we know about harm and healing

right well we know maybe you know

0.007% of what there is to know yet many

humans and human cultures and stuff go

around acting as if they're

authoritative they they we know what's

going on we we do this all the

time um well well let me ask you

something I mean first of all I just to

clarify by Placebo effect I certainly

think that you were saying just to see

this is what you

meet you know in terms of what the way

you were looking at it um I mean I think

of it in terms of the fact that the Mind

Is Ours you know it's part of everything

and it has

extreme

Powers um you know and also the kind of

thing where if you're you know we can

the way the mind works you can also

create disease within yourself if you

feel certain ways um you know about

things you can and there's all kinds of

correlation between emotion and feeling

and you know and and the kinds of things

that your body that you do within your

own body so I mean I think there's a lot

of those elements to it um you know just

to to say that so that's what I think

about in terms ofo it encompasses all of

that but I I do I have a question I mean

you say we're not apart from nature

which I agree with all completely % if

we are nature um but we eat you know

things which are technically quote

unquote outside of ourselves to eat and

what we eat very well determines our

state of health so I don't think I mean

and there's certainly been herbology

this is I'm going to say this really

quick because I don't want to monopolize

anything but you know herbology has been

around for really long time and by

observation that it has discovered

certain substances and medicine is kind

of taken off of that and its various

roots and my my particular physician who

I agree with is that you know that in

the background modern medicine is

basically poisons that have some

positive benefits and I kind of agree

that a lot of that is the case I mean

when they create a modern medicine from

an herbal remedy they or a plant they

only take certain certain elements not

the whole plant and very often it's

actually the whole plant that has the

medicinal quotequote value that causes

healing so I just wanted to say that in

in general

so so a few things come to mind the

first is that herbalism was not

discovered by observation in most cases

uh the herbalistic knowledge that comes

down to us moderns was discovered in

trance in Visions in conversations

between spirits of plants and animals

and humans um I've heard this noise

before and I'm not trying to be uh I'm

not trying to be critical of of you

Nancy but I I I heard a similar noise

from a a a guy who went down to South

America and founded a company called

Shaman Pharmaceuticals because he had

they had discovered that the shaman down

there in in one of the indigenous

cultures um that uses a

psychedelic

snort a psych delc um

snuff one of one of those cultures uh

had discovered remedies for thousands of

diseases and so this guy went down there

and their goal was to kind of rescue

that Culture by um

opportunistically capitalizing on the

knowledge of these shamans and uh they

you know he talked about similarity and

how for example something that looks

like a heart could be good for your

heart and things like this but I asked

him um very pointedly in in the lecture

this is about 23 24 years ago now

happened at Golden Gate Park's little

lecture hall didn't anyway um I can

probably find the guy's name uh it

wasn't the Y mamy he was looking

at let me see here but I asked him um so

how and I I knew I knew how they um

I knew the answer to my question before

I asked

it

so I asked him how did they

discover

which

plants or concoctions were good for

which

diseases and he got a funny look on his

face he looked around the room he said

trial and

error and I was like are you [ __ ]

kidding me right now

there's like well four billion plants

down there they live in the Amazon Rain

for no that makes sense that makes sense

as a matter of fact they had this thing

on I don't know if you saw it that I

think it was um an a monkey in AP or

whatever it was uh self-medicating with

some kind of a plant did you see that

recently I heard about it yeah um and it

was well you could look it up if you

want but it's you know it was really

clear that they knew mhm and knowing

no right quotequote the problem yeah is

is really the way we know anything

matter of fact direct

um I don't want to I just thought of

this the other day that I don't want to

let what I what I think I know I know

interfere with my knowing because it's

the knowing that is the direct and I

agree with that I mean I think that that

is how

things you know are known but once we

divide it into you know take so say but

those plants you know however we know

this and and we do know it and I agree

with you I mean that makes far more

sense than the idea of trial and error

you know you know however we know it

that

knowledge you

know you know is effective knowledge and

it is something quote unquote from

outside of us that goes inside of us but

so does food you know um there's a bunch

of presumptions there that I don't trust

I hear what you're saying and you're

using ordinary language and I

acknowledge that and I'm not trying to

you know again I'm not trying to be a

kagin but I want to distinguish between

uh knowledge sub asterisk and knowledge

sub a and knowledge subb so knowledge

subb is is what common humans think and

say and that kind of [ __ ] knowledge sub

a is what skillful humans are capable of

thinking and imagining and doing and

knowledge sub asterisk that's the [ __ ]

you're talking about that the that the

monkeyy using right that's not regular

knowledge so this is what I mean by

defining our terms carefully right and

and ordinarily you know we need at least

a three- layer description to have any

chance of being intelligent together

notice how rarely humans um

you know how rarely they they play this

way right they almost never do what I

just did with the word knowledge I mean

have you even heard one other person do

it anytime in the past 10 years one

time they just think that a single word

means a thing just means one thing dang

it you know hand me a beer Johnny let's

go fix some truck parts I think I think

Plato and the cave address it you know

yeah okay great so someone did it you

know um 18800 years ago one time amazing

thank

God but yeah so you see what I'm saying

like if we're going to talk

intelligently we need to use language

much more carefully than what we're used

to hearing reading seeing or relating

with and it's easy to do we just have to

have the agreement that we're going to

do that together and then we have to be

careful about understanding the

different meanings of

terms um so I want to go back to I want

to Circle back to a couple of topics

here um I think it's important to

highlight the conspiracy that

occurs uh potentially at least between

the patient the homeopath the water the

substance and the tradition let's call

that conspiracy let's call that

conspiracy Homeopathy not the medicine

let's not call The Medicine Homeopathy

right the medicine is one of the um

elements in that

conspiracy uh and I think that

conspiracy is very important and you

know there's a

positive um there's a positive gloss on

the the word

conspiracy right and I think we're

seeing it here now um it's also entirely

clear to

me that many humans have straight up

died from believing that that

homeopathic medicine could save

them straight up died right those people

died they're like this homeopathic

medicine it's gonna you know it's going

to be amazing it'll it'll cure me I can

avoid them bad allpaths and surgery and

all those B about all

medicine no it's true but I'm just

trying to say that um yeah if Homeopathy

has ever

cured a very serious metabolic or

physical dis disease I've never heard of

that I'd be very surprised to hear that

however

um when a disease is is

remediated I would love to see the proof

that it was remediated by a medicine or

a

treatment because when something goic

harm which is basically harm caused by

Doctors Hospitals and the IAL system

itself in many estimates is the third or

even second leading cause of death in

North

America I think you're right you're

absolutely right

so yeah the problem is um it's really

difficult to

determine

uh I'm just looking this up

[Music]

so I've certainly experienced some

iatrogenic harm I think most of us

who've been exposed to doctors have

whether it was serious or not is is more

you know more

complex

um don't

see it is considered a Le leading cause

of death but it does it's hard to find

find its rank

um the problem with okay so we have a

bunch of problems here but the main one

that concerns me is the problem with

what I call one thing mind right got one

thing we think one thing way one way we

think one one way about one thing and so

we think for example that if a if a

human gets better it's because of the

mechanical effect of the specific

treatments they received from the

alpath in alpath treatments

and that can't be true there's no chance

of that being true and what I mean by

true isn't perfectly authoritatively

correct what I mean by true

is has the likelihood of of being

relatively

truthful right there's no

chance because there are there are

literally infinite factors involved in

every injury or disease and to every

moment of healing infinite every time in

fact there's nothing you can point to in

your mind or in language that doesn't

have infinite qualities what we do is we

collapse a manifold of Infinities down

to some derivatives this is called

excerption in Consciousness then we use

words to refer to the excerption we do

not acknowledge having

done and pretend that we've just

described How the Universe Works you

just wrote about that one yeah I did

actually after reading um some uh a book

examining Owen Barfield saving the

appearances um but yeah this is a huge

problem and the funny thing is I'm doing

it right now in order to say the things

I'm saying I'm taking a variety of

manifolds of

Infinities I'm making specific

purposeful exertions and I'm presenting

to you the results as if they might be

authoritative right so in fact I'm going

to argue there isn't too much else you

can do if you're making you know if

you're making

speech um there's other things you can

do like kissing or taking a poop um or

you know pulling weeds or something that

aren't exactly the same but what you'll

discover if you even look at those

things is that they are also collapsing

of manifolds that result in derivative

excerption how would you differentiate

that from just generally the word for um

uh General

ization wait how would I differentiate

It generally from the word

generalization that's a great question I

really like that one I mean how would

you how would you or how would you

excerpt it right do an excerption from

the from the I mean every I mean I I

know what you're saying is true I mean

but that's the

whole I don't know that's getting your

with

feedback you getting

feedback yeah are you no anyone else

hearing

that yeah I heard some feedback I think

Nancy's voice was echoing back through

Darren's oh okay

yeah hopefully this will

help so I mean I think it really comes

back it managed

I think we just lost Nancy

[Music]

there it says I'm a

moderator really that's great how I I

love it anybody here

yeah oh she's gone

again I'm going to I'm holding on to my

thoughts because I do have some that I

think are relevant but want to wait for

Nancy to come

back welcome back thank

you yeah I was just

um I'm hearing feedback yourself you

still hearing it yeah I am I'm hearing f

voice well I won't say

much okay let's do an experiment Let's

do an experiment I'm going to mute my

mic and then you talk and see if you

hear the

feedback that makes sense um not hearing

the feedback yet so maybe that's what it

was but at any rate just quickly to say

um you know I think it again we come

back down to the same thing in essence

it's all one we're just trying to name

things when we break it up for our

usefulness and for fun and appearance

you know to deal with physical real ity

and

um this is the kind of thing that we

have to be very careful of remembering

that and readed dash membering what we

really are and who we really are that we

literally are all one and that this

really is all one and that this what

you're doing what you're saying what

we're saying is basically to be very

careful about how you say things so you

don't forget I think that that's

something

all right um I'm going to respond now

and let me know if you start hearing

feedback again Nancy I'm gonna try to

mute my mic when you're

speaking um because I'm recording I've

muted mine I've muted mine in the

meantime okay right all right so first

of

all um language itself is a problem but

like technology we're not going to get

rid of it so we need to use it more

intelligently together um yes what I was

saying about manifolds is a

generalization but what unlike most

generalizations it's a hyper

generalization because it

generalizes the fundamental thing that

must be done and surfaces it in our

Consciousness right it generalizes and

surfaces in Consciousness a fundamental

activity that we're not aware we are

doing which is the collapsing of

manifolds of Infinities in in cognition

to produce

Communications uh Act

and writing and so forth and theories

and models and all these things right so

all of

it everything so um it's very useful to

be aware of this because what determines

the outcome of

excerption like um you know the

relationship between a and b for example

uh if a is a leaf and B is a tree what

determines that relationship and its

characteristics is not

logic it's the purpose for which we

started making those

exertions it's the purpose that we had

prior to emitting

speech and if we become aware of this

and pay close attention to it together

we are capable of Acts of intelligence

that are far beyond what ordinary people

ever get anywhere

near um so it's not just that it's a

generalization it's not trivial it's not

a a trivial General

generalization it's a Monumental

generalization it's a hyper

generalization because really you can't

even generalize if you're not doing the

thing I said about the collapsing of the

manifolds and

exertions so the collapsing of the

manifolds and excerption is not actually

a generalization it's a metag

generalization or something like that

now I want to go back briefly before I

lose the

topic and talk about this weird stuff

with misaru imoto and one of the

mistakes imoto made I think is to

suppose that his research told us what

was going on quote with water

unquote

um and once again we have this problem

where the humans are thinking of

themselves as separate I'm not having

any effect on this right um the water

has this property by itself of this kind

of

memory so that if I speak to it of love

it forms a certain kind of Ice

Crystal and if I speak to it of hate it

forms a different kind of Ice Crystal

and so forth

now all that's very interesting there

were problems

reproducing emoto's

work but it's not surprising if we

understand the outcome of his research

as having been a

conspiracy between

Emoto emoto's felt sense and ideas about

water and uh water itself and the

specific circumstances under which his

research produced

results hey per

sense nice to nice to see you

Mick nice to

meet um Nancy's here naoko's here you

know

Beast uh Rick Rises here really

interested in the effects that

Consciousness can and does have on what

we call matter and energy

like for example with the so-called clo

and noo

effects you can have a person

who basically eats enormous amounts of

junk food versus someone who eats

extremely healthy but in some

cases uh the former's Consciousness and

the latter's Consciousness will project

onto the body and relate to the body in

a way where the person eating the

terrible diet will be measurably

healthier over long amounts of time

compared to the one eating the super

healthy diet Etc or

like when it comes to

Medicine you can have remarkably similar

circumstances

um where two people will receive this

like the same treatment for basically

the same

disease one will recover enormously and

the other will uh deteriorate or die

and Consciousness itself and the way it

projects energy onto the body and

through the body seems enormously

impactful

on not just Health

but like how would I put it many aspects

of the way the body functions

absolutely and it's just curious to me

how two seemingly similar or same

circumstances can lead to drastically

different

outcomes All Things Considered that we

can consider anyways um

um what occurs to me is that

um that it really has to I mean the

factors if you want to look at it as

factors and I know you don't look at

things mechanically in that in that way

I do of course I do no I was no I was I

was actually I wasn't actually saying to

you buto but also but also but also to

you I guess you know basically um things

aren't all quot unquote mechanical or if

they are mechanical the mechanics are

affected by so many things you know that

me mechanics are just the maybe you want

to call it the structural element of

something which basically created the

structural element or is uh you know a

structural element that we you know

either not aware of

I mean there's so many factors in

everything infinite almost in anything

that happens including diseases I mean

we built up a certain way that it's

pretty assured that if you're going to

eat you know FR food 247 it's going to

take a toll you know I mean your body

wasn't meant for that but of course

there's so many elements that are

involved that you can't possibly address

any but the very grossest of the aspects

in any one way I think it seems like

Consciousness is so certain aspects and

projections of Consciousness are so

closely correlated to the body and

actually in some ways the environment as

well

that I have to wonder whether pans

psychism which is the idea that

everything is made of Consciousness has

some

Merit

because this leads me to a whole other

rabbit hole but

um

basically I don't know enough but

there are there's basically materialism

which is the idea

that everything is made of matter and

energy which is separate accidental

random and non-conscious which I do not

personally subscribe

to

uh and then you have things like

idealism or philosophical idealism

where live the universe done

uh where the universe is contained

within

Consciousness um and then psychism which

posits that actually everything is made

out of certain expression or layers of

Consciousness and then you have things

like substance dualism which is that you

have two ontological Primitives one is

consciousness or transpersonal

Consciousness and then the other would

be matter and energy and they somehow

inter and

intertwine and I don't really

know which one is true if

any but the

sheer uh interrelatedness and

intertwining of Consciousness and at

least uh the biological body is very

compelling to

me so go ahead

are were you are in this

yes yes I

am is is the recording back on because

it just said live live stream

off uh I was not able to get the

recording happening here so I am

recording it locally on my

machine all

okay

nework I don't know how to pronounce

that

everything you say is true and natur

true um and I come at it from a St

different way like going back to what we

said about uh would go eating McDonald's

being healthy would go eating all the

healthy food being

not um is

that

um there's

a

Consciousness say if you call it eot

which was the old name right a e t h e

r um you can imagine that that's a kind

of a uh shaping Factor think something

is called

archetypes um where you know the seed

for an oak an oak tree grows into an oak

it doesn't grow into a flower so you can

because you're a conscious being with um

the ability to shape your surroundings

you can over your hands

you know can where you walk in the grass

every day you end up with a pathway

compared to the grass around which will

keep going so that ends up being like

um the pathway ends up being like a

funnel which you which you fall into

right and so consciously you can create

these funnels which you will be healthy

no matter what Tye of [ __ ] you put into

yourself

is in the materialistic thinking um you

are what you eat

basically

people things like that they Le [ __ ] so

they be comous oh sorry for using the

bad

language the so the

like archetypes we not exist because the

seeds of the different plants grow into

different types of things they don't

just grow into

um like you know the the Brazil not

doesn't go into nor tree so that's kind

of a Consciousness let's call it the

mapping of the eer but also humans have

the ability to to we one of a few

creatures on Earth to be able to

manipulate her surroundings that

includes

manipulating the Consciousness I'm just

throwing up ideas out here manipulating

the conscious ether which means that we

can decide to be healthy you know we can

we

can our life force we use our life forc

to be healthy beings even if we have

were forced to eat a lot of Crum

right yeah Consciousness seems to

have quite a lot of potential and

abilities that are not

ordinarily uh assigned to it by like in

general

um not just

deliberately using the tobo and noo

effect or things like that or

say projecting onto the body in a

certain way to enable it to become

healthy in [ __ ] situations but like

yeah material things or effect on

material things like your body like the

there's times of

um um where you trades you Warrior like

trades and the mainly become very

physically strong and their muscles will

become you know you will see high

definition even if they're not doing a

lot of physical work right you will you

will notice a high definition in them

right but then there will be other times

where the society becomes you know

there's less risk so the

whatever whether it's Consciousness or

hormonal effects means that the people

will become softer looking right like

the change

now well let me just ask I mean I'm of

the opinion that Consciousness is a

priority to matter in other words it

isn't that matter develops into

Consciousness it's that Consciousness

develops matter and and I you know and

you probably I don't know have you read

Rupert sheldrake at all in terms of his

like morphogenic feels and that kind of

speaks to I think what you're talking

about that there is kind of a field a

Consciousness field and that

Consciousness field could be funnels for

a particular group of people under

certain circumstances either kind of

what you were talking about too I don't

know if that what you think about that

or if that makes sense what I'm saying

but I I I just think

um that makes sense from what you're

saying and I believe you know and and

that Consciousness is actually a so to

quickly interject I think that one of

the problems is that cont ious is so

multi-layered and multifaceted thought

as a regular human born with amnesia so

kind of disconnected from Infinity in

many ways that we generally are not

aware of uh are not surfacy aware of in

our waking State uh like

99.999% of Consciousness so we get this

very like extremely narrow kind of

myopic

experience of Consciousness that only

contains

usually the five senses and thoughts and

emotions and Body Sensations and things

like that but um in my experience there

are at least there are more layers to

Consciousness than just the ordinary

surface waking State and the dreaming

State and it just keeps going deeper and

deeper

and uh accessing is kind of difficult

for an

amnesic like it can take years if not

Decades of practice

to become thoroughly and specifically

aware of the details of those other

layers of

Consciousness

and yeah it's a good way of putting us

but I wouldn't um

I wouldn't

denote a prior a priority to any one

over the other let's let's look at it

like the Y ying and yang right and

people forget between the Y and yang you

have the chi which is the

potentiality so you can imagine the the

Yang being or material being the Ying

being energy and then the CH being

Consciousness like oh all is one and one

is all like that Holy Trinity you

know I did you ever hear about um Monroe

Institute and was his name robt Monroe

yeah absolutely and um

he's you know

reportedly whether it's true or not been

communicating with astral be right but

they they were living in cons pure

Consciousness but they were um envious

of us that we had physical bodies and we

we didn't realize how lucky we wanted to

be and if you look at all the religions

that of the world at the moment most the

majority of the major

ones the the main outcome you want to

reach is pure consciousness of being in

heaven enlighted Heaven you know so

there

is I I think it should be looked as you

know that was Consciousness to come

before matter you know you can argue

this and that but fact of the matter is

there is matter there is energy and we

know there's a supernatural you know

between different um experiences

different people have had

so that's like the yingyang energy yeah

I don't

know which is true if any whether it's

just all some form of Consciousness CU

they're different like there's personal

consciousness subpersonal

transpersonal things that are not even

physically

dependent

um and substance dualism would posit

that you have both entrical Primitives

matter energy and

Consciousness

and

really I just don't know my present

state which is our priority if any

I'd like to um

sorry um so I want to introduce a few

things one to Circle back to the water

thing briefly very briefly I posted a

link in the chat to V Austin's Facebook

page vaa is a water memory researcher

she had a near-death experience

and has developed a method of flash

freezing water after exposing it to some

physical

object and the results she obtains to

call them shocking would be the wildest

of

understatements um it makes what emodo

was doing look like uh I don't know

playing with silly putty or something so

for example uh there was a photograph by

someone she trained yesterday

who um simply exposed a petri dish of

water to her uh

fingertip and then flash by holding her

fingertip above the petri dish okay and

then flash froze the water and it's

blatant it it might as well have been a

photograph in ice crystals you see the

exact structure of the fingertip in the

frozen ice crystals of the water after

the fingertip being held above it for a

few seconds

and you know a billion other well many

thousands of other examples of this so I

just want to point that out to everybody

because V's work is really trippy I'm

going to try to get an interview with

her I don't know if I'm going to manage

it yet but I'm working on it

um so as far as that goes I find that

quite fascinating I don't think vet is

making things up I don't think she's

phony quote unquote by the way that word

comes from the sound of the different

between the sound of an actual human

voice and the sound of a human voice

heard over the one of the initial

telephones that's where we got that word

phony

from um so I'll drop that topic there

and return to where we are now which is

the relationship between what we've been

calling

Consciousness and um matter and and

beings and so

forth uh I think it might be wise for us

to select perhaps to select a different

word than Consciousness we might even

have to make up a word and what I want

to indicate by that

word is the more than merely living

intelligences the origin of the

possibility of minds and

awareness because Consciousness as a

word can can be easily misunderstood as

a uh sort of mechanical level thing like

you have what something like aware Ness

at the top or maybe you know a word that

we need to make up which is what I'm

arguing um we have something at the top

then you have awareness and you have

Consciousness then you have

cognition which is thinking but there's

something truly amazing that I noticed

while Mick was speaking and thank you so

much Mick for showing up today and

hanging out with us really appreciate

you

man um which is that when when he

started to say the thing about physical

stuff and your muscles and things and

them responding to your intention or

your desire or your

imagination there's something actually

much weirder going on that's blatantly

obvious right I am reaching out at this

moment to pick up a glass of water and

I'm drinking

it okay so that that action tells us

directly that awareness the human body

is is like a platform through which

awareness can organize physical matter I

just did

it in the simplest physical action

between my hands and some objects I am

reorganizing matter with

awareness so if anybody thinks if anyone

objects and says oh that's some

metaphysical blah blah blah the fact

that they can even move their vocal

cords to object is an example of exactly

what I'm talking

about so I would like us to have some

other word for the stuff some other word

than Consciousness because that can be

misunderstood and what I want to mean by

this word we could you know maybe

um maybe certain philosophers called it

uh stuff like things in themselves or

that which is but that's not descriptive

enough because what I mean is a more

than merely living superposition over

the

possibilities of awareness Consciousness

and intelligence

cognition I mean a primordial feature of

all that exists and much that doesn't

exist physically which is

informing in it it goes into things and

from within informs them and we might we

may come up with a word or I might

suggest one in a minute but before I do

that um there's also a secondary problem

which is the humans think I'm acting

from inside me to outside things and

what I'd like to suggest is that the

idea of outsideness is delusional there

is no

outsideness

outsideness is an

artifact of the perspective from which

we are participating and and thinking

about these matters there is no

outsideness if and you know earlier uh

Nancy was saying things are everything

is one yes everything is one but

everything is also distinct and 19 other

things that it is impossible to

formulate in

English right so you know everything is

one and there are

distinguished uh quote unquote separate

beings and and and and 19 other things

that we haven't figured out how to

surface in Consciousness or describe to

ourselves yet

so for the moment we can call this thing

from which awareness and Consciousness

and intelligence and cognition

deres uh or localizes we can call that

thing X but I want us to make up a word

for it um and any suggestions would be

welcome I realized Consciousness can be

a very vague term and can mean many

different things to many different

people but I kind of like the term as

[Music]

well that's quite a

term what was that oh incoming CL

apparently okay but what was the term

that you said you liked it got obscured

by that whatever that was uh I I like

the term Consciousness as well um it's

just that it can be and is

misinterpreted or

tends to mean different things to

different people but well let me just

throw this into the fry I mean

consciousness of what and what is

conscious in other words I mean I think

that a lot of religions and throughout

times I mean I of God Ra is it is it

Consciousness being conscious of

itself that that causes the split it

causes all the many other things I think

I don't know if anybody here does

doesn't feel this way but I know what

you what you were

mentioning you know what what

organ you know George was mentioning is

basically that um that it's both and it

is both it's it's but it's it's it's the

one and it's everything else that's

forming

information preformation but but I think

the whole Consciousness things and I'm

not sure about you know how to describe

it either you know has a lot to do with

I mean you can use the word awareness

but it's that's not really enough I mean

the Consciousness when I think when I

said that Consciousness was a priority

to matter what I was saying was that it

is that which

is

all perhaps aware and where that

awareness goes maybe goes into the many

many things that and many people and

many everything that exists I don't what

I mean

is uh like subjectivity direct

subjective experience what it is like to

be so and so

[Music]

or how I put

it that Which experiences

maybe so that which is aware that it's

aware on some level is that not what

that Which experiences

is or is it or is it the direct

experience without this subjective

without the

self-awareness I think it can exist in

many states uh with or without a self

even with or without awareness

because there can be existence and

things happening and a total lack of

awareness of it and then later on in a

different state of consciousness you

realize that all of that was going on

but there was

no uh personal awareness of it at the

time

so that makes sense that's your personal

Consciousness that you're talking about

but I guess what I'm talking about is I

think there's like we're talking about I

think everybody is you know that there

is there is consciousness you you were

talking about earlier how it was you

know habit personal in different levels

of consciousness same you know but but I

think that the

Consciousness that is transpersonal or

you know there are other there is your

own I mean I think we I think we're

personally I think we're all gone period

and that we're all we are all this

larger Consciousness kind of dumbed down

if you want to put it that way

forgetting if you want to put it that

way that that's what we are or whatever

and we're having this experience clearly

or we would be on this fun call together

but I mean there is something else which

exists I think when I say Consciousness

is a priority I'm talking about a

different but the Consciousness that we

are all part of that's basically what my

not not person not

just definitely there's something like a

collective um a collective Consciousness

that is not ultimately separated at root

layers although it contains multiplicity

so as Darren said it's both one and the

many at the same time

but

uh yeah I used to

believe many

[Music]

things and now I'm not so sure about

many of

them

yeah just to one of the things there if

we were God we would be able to describe

what is so I don't think we are the

whole like it's like maybe like a leaf

on the tree that leaf cling to be the

tree know is a bit super FR it has he

fall off in the oran just like we die in

wither no that's that's that's

nature is it possible that the tree is

claiming to be the

leaf

no I I think I've never seen a tree make

a

claim yes but I you know

this thing to say that we are

God you know we're par of it but we're

not we're not the greater Consciousness

you know to me we're more like the leaf

on the tree we're just we're part of it

do is a great

all I think I think you're right but if

you look at the whole fractal pattern

that exists that ex you know the mandle

BR and everything that is you know as

above so below how does that work you

know how is it that above sub I mean

it's the it's not to say that I am a God

you know or The God that controls

everything but I think that I don't know

what God is if God is not part of

everything and and we are not part of

God

so yeah okay there's there's a huge

problem here with parts and holes

[Music]

um and you know whether or not we are

God is a similar question and I can show

you directly how shockingly similar this

question is to whether or not my hand is

me because certainly my hand isn't all

of me and yet without my hand I'm not

me it's very complicated this is a

problem in thought and in language and

in concept and the problem is what is

the difference between a and b and as I

said yesterday the difference will not

be found it will not be discovered or

articulated in a simple fashion because

what determines the difference the

difference is not predetermined as we

imagine in language the difference is

produced by our relationship with

categories and identities in thought

conception and language the difference

is not in the things the difference is

in our mind and difference is produced

by the purpose for which we make

exertions producing thereby seemingly

discret entities which we then refer to

and compare and evaluate and

analyze yeah um I would just take a step

back for what you said with that

handling the body or handing

you um if you lost your hand you would

still live on but if the hand lost you

then the hand is

finished so there like there are

differences between the pars and the

whole yes I mean that's a very

insightful uh figure that you produced

there Mick however the figure is not as

authoritative as it

appears it's crafty your figure is

Crafty and and I acknowledge and

appreciate that

craftiness and yet um what it really

comes down to is what we mean by hand

and Daren it's not

that so we we've often heard people say

that like if I lose one of my

limbs I'm still

me and like you said Mick which I've

never heard anyone say if my limb loses

me it's done for which is really

interesting Twist on

that um but it's very complicated it's

not simply

true uh because for

example when a feature of a

Unity quote goes away unquote

right

um and by the way it's mono m n o mono

eano

uh which I think means hand in hand when

a feature of a Unity goes away from one

thing let's say um let's say a not real

person a person named aigl mendum uh

loses their

hand um and we'll pretend that they are

like a real person uh even though

they're imaginary I'm doing this figure

on purpose um when when that person

loses their hand it seems to have become

separated from their body that which

disappears in one place appears again

somewhere else it seems to me there's

there's like this weird thing which

isn't exactly one of the laws of

thermodynamics but it's something like

um elements of a

form cannot actually fully go away they

may disappear from one place or time but

they are nonetheless present in others

or even that which departs from one

observed context appears in some other

context observed or not

thoughts that's archetype that that Nick

was talking about earlier I me I think I

mean yes of course the hand is a

morphology and and you know a chair is a

chair as a chair even if it has a

different form but I think you know I

don't know that that's actually I don't

know I don't I guess maybe I don't know

how you mean that if you don't mean if

you don't think of the way I'm

mentioning

it it is kind of interesting uh to do a

thought experiment that Go's something

like what makes me me

or what what does the intactness of self

consist of like if am I the body in

entirety am I the brain am I an eye if

you take like in My DNA so the

Consciousness witnessing it

if

you come at it

from an analytical perspective and take

it all apart you can't really

distinguish any one such part of self

and say this specifically is what I am

or who I

am it seems to all

be like a

synergistic interconnected ho

of or at least on the cellular level I

think s beings

um

and yeah when a part of us like a hand

or an eye or a limb is suddenly severed

or taken

away

the the person that being is still there

but in an altered

form well I mean

then well I mean what I know in terms of

like for example there's a quote from

the Bible which goes that their left if

your left arm offends the cut it off

well what that means is but there are

lesser parts of you and there are non-

lesser parts and you know you can still

it's like the Monty Python thing where

they in the whatever that was one where

the guy keeps getting his arms and legs

cut off and he says come on I'll fight

you I'll fight you well it's the will I

would say of that person that still

exists I mean look at um you know

anybody but without their physical parts

or you know they're still really just as

much them it's it's their Consciousness

if you will or their and their will and

their connection to their own the larger

awareness hopefully um you know that

determines who and what you are and how

you um remember who you are um but I

mean I just think that of course we're

in a physiological form that's

functional as are all the other animals

for for existence on the planet but I I

I don't know that I personally would

spend too much time wondering if a hand

was missing it you're still you to me

it's F obviously you are although I

would not necessarily

consider the parts of myself lesser or

greater

like it's a perspecti

thing

okay but uh I want to come back to what

Darren just said about if one thing

disappears in one context it reappears

in another uh what do you mean by that

exactly

I guess he's absent or

muted I'm sorry what was the question I

was away from the keyboard for a

moment uh no worries uh I wanted to ask

you about what you just said

regarding if one thing disappears in one

context it reappears in another right so

consider uh the fact of drinking water

um I just took a sip from the glass of

water on my desk this is all a construct

in language what is actually going on

has nothing to do with what I just said

nonetheless the water disappears from

the glass and appears somewhere

unobserved inside me that's what I'm

talking about right fundamental s we we

don't have to take wild metaphysical

leaps into the

stratosphere to understand the

principles that

underly um our experience and our being

net right so like can is it possible to

let me just ask you this question is

there anything I can do in the to the

water in the in the glass that causes it

to actually go

away if it were to go away go

ahead oh I was saying hypothetically

you could invent a technology

that I'm getting a lot of

feedback but B

hold hold on hold on

intru sorry um naoko hypothetically you

could invent a technology that what I

got kicked

out uh that completely neutralizes all

of the energy that the water consists of

and so would effectively remove its form

from the

universe uh yeah I don't think so I mean

you could say in a thought experiment

but I'm asking for something I can do to

the water to literally make it go gone

like not be and there isn't anything

like that I don't think it's possible to

make the water be gone and if it were

gone where would it be gone to go ahead

Mick yeah I think actually what what

you're what you said previously was very

interesting um point about like with the

water there memory in water they see

true Homeopathy you put on the the link

to the woman earlier VI the atin right

so we say when you're talk about your

body just spe to Consciousness say when

you you with a certain vibrational

frequency as you as you live now right

um and you attain a certain vibrational

frequency in your your life a life force

and then when you die does that your and

you decompose does that life force go

with the different molecules of water

that were in your body into the ground

and it can be

reborn and back you know so it's it's

it's kept in in Consciousness that's the

term we're using uh

basically you know it lasts into the

future generations and is born

again I don't know honestly

uh there seems to be at least some

evidence for reincarnation actually

happening although I don't know I I I

didn't want to talk about reincarnation

I was talking about just in the

as what we were talking about earlier

about Consciousness matter energy which

was a

priority like

that your

conscious fre life force which you have

during

life is that disseminated to the

molecules that break down when you die

and it's rain in them so it's not just

cure matter of water the water is

retaining your Consciousness and can

flow down a river or it can be within

another being like a fish you see what I

mean yeah I don't know well what about

now I mean if you first of all this

matter energy thing is kind of a false

thing because we all know scientifically

even that that matter is just

concentrated form of energy so it's not

like there's it really isn't like

they're dualistic it's just we think of

matter as things you could see physical

things but really I mean we know just

from you know Einstein and the bomb you

know that that that matter contains

tremendous amount of concentrated energy

in fact that's what it is but apart from

that I mean I think you know that you

know that what we are I mean if you love

somebody right and you send that love to

them and you feel that love with them

that is

energetic right and that exists and and

personally I think we're we're energy

riding around in meat suits you know and

Consciousness riding around in Meats

suits and we formed into this physical

reality that's come from whatever but

the bottom line is I mean I would say of

course you know the the energy of you

still exists I don't think it could be

destroyed and I don't think anything can

be destroyed in that in that sense I I

mean I just think I don't personally

take that at all

so although I am very averse to the idea

of calling the body a meat suit as it

kind of disbe it like disen beinging it

uh no it's brilliant it's brilliant I

don't mean to denigrate the body at all

just want to say I say it deliberately

that way just to distinguish to just so

that that shock actually even exists out

there for people to think is this you

know is this body all I am of course so

I mean the reason I say it is kind of

for shocked of course I'm not

denigrating it in any way or thinking

it's separate in any way from our

purpose or our

function who we are incarnate at all

just that's

why I think the

body gets

misperceived

uh and misinterpreted like all the time

by regular Ames at humans like me

um it seems to be a collective of

sentient beings trillions of them or

quadrillions if you can't the

bacteria and from one perspective

anyways

and

somehow perceiving and relating to the

body as if it were just a separate

non-conscious piece of meat

causes the body to reflect that and so

it kind of it has a degrading effect I

find not that that's what you were

saying but just in terms of the

terminology

itself well the reason I also use me too

is Incarnate is a word and what

incarnate means is in meat right that's

the Incarnate incarnate is that and of

course the body is has all the

Brilliance of all the beings that exist

in it everything it's just because when

people think and I don't accuse you this

or believe you believe this or anybody

this call believes this but you know if

people get lost in the physicality of

things to to the point where it they

don't realiz it's kind of almost a

wakeup call to say no it's not it's not

just even the organizing principle of

this amazing morphic physicality that

exists in humans and every other animal

every other being every other piece of

every other being it's not just that

it's what's in that it's what's it's

what's it's the reason for it being in

the first place so that's the reason why

I do it it's like I say it's a little

bit of shock value but it's actually

within the the idea of of the

terminology

incarnate I think we've gotten a little

bit distracted here so back to mix's uh

question about whether the molecules in

the substances presuming that molecules

are you know actually there which is not

entirely

clear um in our bodies when we die go to

other

places

um they certainly do if you know in in

as much as we have a model of of what

happen s to molecules and their

Transformations um what that means is

hard to understand and that

model actually is really helpful if

we're looking at a single molecule or

we're trying to build a molecule say a

protein or something like this um but it

gets pretty weird if we start including

many molecules now it becomes really

difficult to tell what's going on over

time and weirdly um one of of the

bizarre things about science is

that it seems to be many branches of it

are very concerned with

prediction and this comes down to

something that's fundamentally human

which is a problem that we all face

we're facing it right now even as we

participate in this meeting and the

problem orbits um three pivots that I

will call vigilance ambiguity and

prediction and ambiguity vigilance and

prediction are tightly linked right

because when there's ambiguity our

vigilance will tend to rise because our

threat um Sentinel will wake up and the

reason the threat Sentinel is waking up

is because it's trying to figure out

what's going to happen in the future a

lot of science um

is oriented toward this task of making

predictions and thus determining whether

a model of a physical system or a

relational system or a biological system

or even a psychological system in case

of psychology which is not really a true

science uh we're trying to understand

what the you know the relationship

between the model and the thing is

that's being modeled and also we're

trying to understand uh how

past um

past situations produce present

situations and lead to Future situations

so we're trying to be able to make

predictions um certainly the molecules

in the body uh are quote unquote

recycled by by quote unquote nature none

of us having any [ __ ] idea what

nature is uh we know what we mean I

think we know in a trivial or clumsy way

what we mean when we use the word but um

we mean all that is uh however I would

usually distinguish between N Things

that I see as

natural um which are things that were

not produced U by human beings having

become catastrophically addicted to the

engineering and production of machine

Mach to me machines don't look like part

of nature I can understand someone who

says no everything that is is nature so

machines are included I get it I get the

argument but I think it's important to

make a distinction between something

that offloads entropy into living

systems and something that's relatively

neg Tropic which the biosphere is um in

any

case so I realize I've you know made a

very bird Walky movement here yes the

molecules are recycled do they carry the

energy of our soul with them who knows

it seems if if just thinking casually

about it it seems that those molecules

May in a way not entirely dissimilar to

how Homeopathy likes to frame things

have some kind of energetic fingerprint

of us but I don't think

necessarily that I mean I I tend to

suspect and think as if there's

something like a soul but what I think

it is is really weird it's not a single

thing it's like a constellation of

relationships among beings over time

with a central feature that I think of

as

Darren right so instead of just thinking

Darren has a soul I don't think that way

at all I think it's a constellation

effect it's much like a solar system

having a star in it right there's this

constellation of beings and

relationships and moments and places and

memories and Futures that is uh Moment

by moment flowing into and being

localized as Darren and it doesn't mean

I can't have a past life or a future

life it just means that it won't be it's

not like a single Diamond inside Darren

that goes outside Darren when I die and

then goes Boop into another body later

and gets reincarnated I think that's

wildly unlikely I'd also like to suggest

that all past lives are Uniquely Yours

and so are all future lives

um in in the sense that all of them are

you but their relationship to the you in

this moment that is presently localizing

as say Mick or naoko or beast or Risa

Nancy um the the what's localizing is a

unique near neighbor array of of

relationships between all those beings

and so every past life is fine every

future life is mine but every future and

past life is also yours and they are

differently mine and yours something

like this seems to be a bit more a

slightly more intelligent way to

Encompass the question we have a huge

problem in English with the idea of

singular

possession and like I have my soul my

soul has a body called you know that's

this one and I my soul is inside this

body okay no because none of those

things are um none of them are

explicitly separate all of them are

processes something is flowing into me

right now allowing me to be alive and

speak and we presume that it's my

heartbeat that keeps me alive but it's

not it's something flowing into me and I

think it's that thing that X that is

primordial to awareness Consciousness

intelligence cognition sensing relation

experience it's that X that is flowing

into me and it's uniquely flowing into

me and it's uniquely flowing into you

but it is uniquely flowing into us from

something that we can think of as

singular which is often uh referred to

as God or the one Sun that is the inner

light of all events and situations

thought um I passion you to I I I didn't

mean that um you know our soul is going

into the molecular water and being

carnated if that piece of prop water

goes into to someone else in the future

um it was more like and I'm going the

turn information energy

so

apparently our existence is to learn for

the universe to experience and to learn

right so we're obviously building up new

experiences for

ourselves for the relations that you

mentioned there down and the universal

Consciousness right so or God whatever

you want to call it

so that information

energy is accumulated over time and

according to some theories the universe

is fractal so that can be held within me

as M or a molecule water within

me um so I I wouldn't it's just part of

the the learning and experience through

life that that also will be a relation

to the you know the development of the

soul in the individual but that that

information energy is

you know I I'm just positing here that

it could be retained in each molecular

water that goes to you

and you know it forms part of the the

the the local that can inform other

things around you right

um like like for example if I take a p

outside under a tree right and then

there's myum around that tree and tree

puts up some mushrooms right you know it

could be that the mushrooms if I eat

them later after a certain type of one

say like amonita or another one that

everyone knows about that there could be

a bit of a feedback from the information

energy that they saw coming from me when

through the tree roots through the melum

back up to the mushroom and they're

telling me something back

yes see why

not so Mick what was your original

question actually concerning itself with

about the dying into molecules and them

going into other things what what was

your what was your concern there what

was interesting you you about

that well well it was it was it was

um it was about you you saying about the

hand the hand being separate from the

body but it it comes back to the

original thing about which was a prior

Consciousness matter

energy you know like because we were

discussing about the greater

consciousness

H I still don't see what you were

exploring with the question but that's

okay we can we can continue

on can I just ask if what he was if Mick

if what you were if what you were saying

had to do with the fact that you were

wondering if everything that's physical

that um we're made of and everything

that whatever we experience whatever we

we have in formed

all of it on some level I don't know if

that's what you were saying but that's

kind of what I was getting

from I was extending dar's Point both

you know the the hand being a

representation of you

yourself um or not

representation

um you know a piece but

also of you you

know that that we were we were

discussing about the the part being the

hole and the hall being the

part yeah that makes sense I mean the

weird thing though is that as you can

see my hand is not actually a part there

are no parts to living beings the the

concept of Parts is a

um it's a

surgical and uh a

dissection perspective there are no

parts I'd love to see you get one of

your molecules separate from your body I

can't

wait Dar let's go back to the water the

water you drink a bit of the water the

water is outside you you drink a bit

it's in

then you take a piss 24 to 48 hours

later back out s you again so there are

exchanges um of molecules of KS stuff

from your body to and from

[Music]

you yes if there are separate things we

can imagine that yes and if there aren't

separate things we can still imagine

something similar we can imagine um

unities in discrete processes and

situations interacting

together the weird thing

is as

humans I can't speak for anyone else but

as a human

I cannot or at least I do not perceive

the entirety of the universe and my

experience as like one un

so the mind seems conditioned to

separate certain things and categorize

them and label them and assess them as

separate even though

ultimately I think this universe is

probably more of a much more of a Unity

um

like when I look at the environment

right now the desk the glasses on it the

class outside the birds the

trees it is

somehow foreign to me to perceive

everything as a whole and everything in

relation to everything

else and it's quite trippy to like try

and delve into that kind of

perception um is it possible that I'm

thinking in terms of meditation and the

times that maybe without thinking about

it you felt just felt a sense of of

Oneness I don't know I don't think you

can think yourself into an awareness of

Oneness I don't think that's possible I

all think all the thinking part is the

part that we do to divide things up and

you know do what Darren was talking

about with the vigilance the ambiguity

prediction and all that which is the

other side of the coin which creates the

many things we you know out of the one

so you know where we we're doing all

this stuff to keep ourselves functional

and of course we can get lost in that

that's all I mean to the degree that we

forget you know what we're even here for

and I really think that a question that

kind of was alluded to but that wasn't

you know that never clearly kind of gets

out there exactly is what is the purpose

behind us being here and I know know you

know that Nick was talking about you

know the purposes and I think this is

true I personally like I said think

broke out I think we just broke up

because we're bored and we're looking at

each other from different eyes so that

you know so that we have an experience

and we build on that and you know I

think it's you know we've created heaven

Out of Hell made this thing hell instead

of fun because we've gotten so lost in

the in the having and the doing in order

to be that we we excessive in it and we

forgotten the whole experience of the

being and I don't think you know so

that's the way that's my take on the

right well whatever might be the purpose

or the cause of this I definitely don't

see it as ethical because we have

Horrors like factory farming and

Commercial Fishing and wage slavery and

ecocide and abuse and poverty and famine

and disease and enormous just sheer

unimaginable amounts of suffering going

on probably not just on this planet but

others and just it's

whatever the cause or Reason is it is

definitely not ethical

right I mean let me just ask I something

and I'll stop talking but you know you

just

talk

um all that you say that is wrong I mean

and I think this is what I mean

religions have certainly looked at this

I mean everything looks at this

philosophers religions they don't really

come back down but you know if if we are

out of touch with our with our

experience as beings and it yeah it is

pain I mean what ISM talks about you

know suffering and that is the nature of

life and that is painfully we call it

ethical I mean we don't need to

exacerbate the suffering once we

understand that what we've been doing in

the the the having and the doing part of

our

survival when it becomes destructive to

the being you know then it's no longer

that is to me the lie if you want to say

a lie and and I think the LIE can only

be spoken of in human terms you know

that that the lies that we tell

ourselves are about what we really need

what we need physically to survive and

what we need to do to get that those are

the lies if they are destructive of the

being and if if in my opinion the the

being wants to live in love and in and

as close to Oneness as possible that

experience of connectivity whether it's

with an individual that you love or

sensing it more externally you know as a

as a a way of of of knowing that other

people are being taken care of and and

wanting the best for them I mean it's

all down to the fact that we've gotten

lost we I mean kind of like I guess

maybe the Bible describes her you know

just like in falling into I hate to use

the word but I am just bear with me

meets you know we we are having these

experiences and we need to REM as in put

ourselves together again who we are and

and why we're here and if we don't do

that if we don't realize our reason for

being or if French like to call it rise

on that the French certainly know how to

bring a certain amount of pleasure to

life you know and and and and connection

then then we are lost because that is

the the loss is the loss of our own

awareness of what we are so I just find

it incredibly tragic that in order to

remain physically embodied and survive

at all it is kind of necessitated by

nature to kill and eat other

beings uh with varying degrees of

sentience the whole thing is kind of

messed up in my

view well I don't think we have to kill

beings I mean there's a lot of have you

tried not eating at

all no well I mean if you're not eating

meat and other like you say OBS sensous

beings but do you think that somehow

you're put

it but if you've been if you've been

that you're somehow wrong to take up

space and to be put on this planet for

example no I don't think I'm wrong I

just think that it is tragic that we

find ourselves trillions quadrillions of

us in such a

situation so so if you didn't want to

eat meat and you didn't want to eat you

know anything other than vegetables

which I understand from what you're

saying implies that there's a certain

amount of sentence do you know that I

mean when you do you know are you sure

that what they experience at your eating

them the veget

rum is is terrible suffering in in pain

is that are you sure of that I'm not

absolutely certain of that but plants do

communicate and grow and respond and

interact and send distress signals when

they are bitten by caterpillars for

example and they appear to have at least

some degree of

sentience um can I just just before you

got too deeply into the the point the

tragedy

like the what you said no actually

inspired me T or an Insight that you

know the if you're looking around

yourself and everything is bad you know

the trees are going you know um the

weather is messed up you know you see

broader Society you see you know

denigration in the cities those druggies

you know whatever prob

but isn't that that's that's a creation

of

our I'm just positing again that that is

a creation of our conscious being here

and that like Darren said earlier we can

affect what's around us so we can

actually change that so you know to rest

in

um uh sadness about us is not the way to

be the way to be is to act for better in

the way way in the best way you

can I do think that wallowing and

suffering and how terrible things are is

definitely counterproductive in that it

just adds one additional suffering being

to the mix and doesn't really help

anyone but at the same

time if I had a massively expanded

awareness and was aware

of kind of everyone and everything that

existed here at least locally on Earth

it would not resemble kind of a personal

self and and like a feron like a five

senses but it would be multiplied

massively by trillions or quadrillions

depending on what you refer to a

sentient um but again you're limiting

you're limiting your lack of not being

omnipresent not being the the complete

God uh not lamenting just

uh we are we are like there's like you

know I'm sure some of you here know no

this but we have more capabilities than

the five senses and the you know the

physical beings that we are you know

right there so and we are as being the

higher conscious beings on this planet

we are the ones that have been given the

ability to make the changes for good or

for bad so when we see around us the

degradation of both nature and our

living

places

then we we must find you know we we

could find it within ourselves to act on

that and make it

better absolutely

you know about fine horn right fine horn

I guess everybody probably does that's

where they went and they these giant

vegetables bigger than any place else

ever and you know about talking to

plants and basically this was a

spiritual community that kind of did

that I believe I don't know a lot about

them but I know they did and I you know

I I I don't know I mean if you are

vegetarian or vegan and you you're not

causing any um animal to suffer either

through its conditions or by eating it

that that I mean plants are our parents

they came first they birthed us their

seeds are carried around by animals

eating them so that they can can

proliferate and we do their biding so I

mean and the fruits that plants produce

are not

suffering from our eating you

know you know

perhaps who knows but I mean I know I

know there's senss of course and

Consciousness absolutely but I don't

know if you need to worry about plants

screaming by eating them because I don't

really think that's how it works I don't

think they would be you know but of

course loving

and but

I I

need and I you know it's just a

continuation of the

life um I'd like to speak to this

problem I've been um away from the mic a

little bit had to do a couple things but

I

I I know uh naoko well we we are close

friends I invited him to the

meeting and

um naoko has a specific

concern um which I don't want to

minimize however I do want to examine

some disperate features of this concern

and the concern goes something like and

nowo feel free to correct

me um this big experiment that we call

existence is bad

it's bad because whatever is organizing

it doesn't seem to be concerned with

alleviating suffering and generates a

whole bunch of suffering and new ways of

suffering all day long every day that

being must not

be go ahead sorry uh I don't think all

of

existence W that's a lot of

feedback go ahead I don't think all of

existence is bad or terrible or

unethical but certainly at least on

Earth uh

there's

just an unimaginable amount of

suffering in many instances of beings

and nothing really rescues

them okay let me maybe death yeah let me

address that somewhat

sure

so and by the way I'm I'm trying to mute

my mic whenever stop talking to minimize

feedback because I'm having to record on

the local machine I don't have any other

way to do it since I was unable to find

a way to cause the recording to happen

but

nonetheless um all right

so there are a bunch of atheists running

around like God's bad because he lets

children get chopped up and tortured and

animals tortured and everything being

tortured and it's not untrue that things

are experiencing torture that that part

is actually going on not

arguing however we don't know what the

actual situation is if there is even an

actual situation situation may be the

interplay of myriads of probabilities

and possibilities which I think is

probably likely and I can you know I can

suggest some scenarios that might be

going on but one of the things I could

do is say that

um I could make the leap and say waking

conscious

is the cause of all suffering not God

not humans none of that in order for

there to be suffering you got to be

awake so waking consciousness is

actually the the lethal star that causes

all the torture and blah blah blah blah

blah and I could you know I could make a

sophisticated argument around that even

though I'm using it rather trivially at

the moment but notice that um dreaming

is pretty weird right because things

don't actually suffer in dreams that we

can that we can know also I've had an

experience of a proposition in

Awareness which I think is probably

tripartite due to this experience I

won't go in depth into the experience

but um I'll just say briefly that during

a sleep paralysis

event uh there were three positions that

I was aware of in Consciousness one of

them was the me in the dream itself

which was literally being crushed

together as if there was some gravity

Source inside my body that was causing

me to compress into myself and my bones

were breaking and I was terrified and it

was horrible above that was a position

that was an absolutely impartial

Observer just

watching no response no

reaction above that was some kind of an

exploding light show vaguely similar to

the Dow symbol in the colors of a box of

Tide detergent that was

pulsing and

so what I'm trying to say here is

complicated the first thing I'm trying

to say is that if there's a

God it doesn't go around repairing bad

situations in material existence that's

not what it's up to right and similarly

you could also easily say right that um

the sun is bad because because of the

sun there are tortures and torturers and

the tortured and and let me really clear

there is aonic experience in In Living

beings living beings experience pain

there is aonic experience in living

beings um but how we think about that

requires I think a very an array of

unique perspectives depending not on

some authoritative perspective in a

superp position over all of existence

but rather in direct relational concern

with and for other beings

so for example um Israel isn't a

being right that's a

construct that's like kind of like a

demon that captures human beings and

gets them to do things so is the United

States so is

Palestine but what Israel is doing quote

unquote if if this process can be said

to be acting Andor be responsible for

actions is obliterating humans and like

killing children women and all kinds of

things uh out of some bizarre

supposition out of an array of bizarre

suppositions that are entirely

unjustifiable and I could say this is

because of the sun if that darn Sun

weren't up there none of that would be

happening or I could say this is because

of God this is God's fault God made

everything and he didn't care you know

she or he or they they didn't care to

make it nice they just made it possible

for it to be horrifically bad for

billions of of beings

all those things can be said however I

think quote what's going on unquote and

it isn't a what that's going on it's a

who or an us um so the US that's going

on is very complex and it it's the

nature of of its origin expression

process

existence is profound now my own

experience of the this origin is that it

is good and ethical and beautiful but

that doesn't

preclude pain or suffering or even Agony

or torture it doesn't preclude rape it

doesn't preclude

murder um and somehow in the

bizarre uh complexity of that which is

of we who

are these features of existence

serve some crucial and I would argue

beautiful purpose now I know this is a

very dangerous thing to say I get it

it's really really dangerous people are

going to if if if Ordinary People heard

me they'd be like you're justifying

murder and and bad things okay okay I'm

not trying to justify anything what I'm

saying is there's a perspective above

where we normally

lurk from which Agony and torture and

pain and suffering

are intrinsically not merely

redeemed they are themselves

Redemptive they make a transformation in

the manifold of being that is crucially

important profound possibly even holy

that doesn't mean we go around

engendering

them it means that we look with

curiosity and wonder it means that I do

anyway I look with curiosity and wonder

on the the the pain and the suffer

uffing and The Agony and the Tormentor

and the

tormented I look with Wonder and loving

kindness upon them and I don't merely

leap to

simple um ethical critiques now let me

let me now that I've formed that little

you know glass of water of ideas I want

to say a couple of other

things uh similar to what Mick was

saying surely I am offended

by beings harming other

beings I'm offended when I am harmed I

would like to interfere in or intervene

in situations in which beings are

harming other beings I am particularly

um upset about what I've seen going on

in the Middle East and in

Ukraine and in all kinds of places that

aren't right on the tip of the

news

um one of the things I would say about

those things is that

it's only been possible for humans to

think of quote the world unquote for a

very short period of the developmental

time of our

species perhaps less than a thousand

years maybe a little bit more and

probably more like in the way that we

think of the world that's only been

possible for about maybe 300 years so

for most of human history it was

impossible for you to know for example

that people in distant places were

suffering or that the rainforests of the

Amazon were being burned down down for

soy plantations or cattle grazing stuff

or that humans were ripping the oceanic

ecologies to shreds or spraying

[ __ ] um Monsanto chemicals that you

know [ __ ] up our hormones and our our

biological molecules

forever

um yeah now that was that was impossible

for most of human history and I would

argue that we are not set up to be able

to relate with that purview

intelligently or effectively or to

remain healthy when

subjected to the incredible burden of

Agony and um Badness that we know that

we are informed of via the

media and other

people um and this leads to an even

worse thing which is now it's always

there's always been some portion of

misinformation or

disinformation in the media

there's always been some spin but now we

have stuff that's pure fiction right it

was made up just to manipulate us

there's no spin it's all spin so we have

that too it's very hard for a

compassionate loving sensitive being to

exist in any kind of healthy way while

being aware of for example the suffering

that animals are exposed to or the

obliteration of the anciently conserved

ecologies or you know children being

exploded in Gaza I mean there's no way

to cope with that what do you do what do

you what's the right move I'm not

claiming there is a right move but what

I'm trying to say

is we have to take into consideration

that we're not equipped for this and we

also have to take take into

consideration that when we form a cohort

like we're doing here which is amazing

and I'm so grateful for it and I honor

each of you for being here and your

uniqueness and your your

humanness then and only then do we have

the

ability to become different from what

the humans are doing remember earlier in

the conversation we were talking about

certain kinds of

conspiracies right the conspiracy for

example between a doctor a patient a

medicine and and the context in which

those roles are

enacted and one of the things that we

are trained to do and that I think is

very tragic and

disempowering is that we act like um

separated

Spectators commenting on atrocity even

when we're here together forming a Unity

which could actually affect the world

history the future right we're so used

to being isolated which is by the way

for most of human history [ __ ]

impossible right there's no such thing

as an individual a couple thousand years

ago and and I don't know how old our

species are but it's but we're a lot

older than that so the idea of an

individual is a terrifying idea it's a

it's it's an abstraction a literal

subtraction of a human being from

everything that is important to Being

Human and one of the problems that

occurs when we are abstracted in this

way and we are rendered into

individuals is we think things let me be

really clear about something briefly

this whole thinking thing thinking is to

a mind as being nailed to a rock is to a

bird

that is not what our minds are for our

minds are not for sitting around

thinking things thinking is a symptom of

isolation what our minds are for are

communion they're for forging the Third

Way together in real time which I like

to think we at least have the

opportunity to do here and that's

something that

I'm always wanting and can do very

effectively with with a small group or

even one other

person um so that that goal post is much

nearer at hand than we imagine and one

of the problems I have for myself and I

notice other people have it too though

I'll speak about myself is I tend to

cling to my

pet um biases shoulder chips chips on my

shoulder things I'm I was hurt by or or

make me mad or I don't

understand and so that when when I get

into a group what might happen to me

sometimes less so these days is I'm

older now is that I really just play the

broken record of my upsets you know the

things that that irked me or hurt me or

that I don't understand or that I

resent and you know I was writing the

other night after talk having an amazing

talk with someone and I said to

them when we're with people who are

largely absent what's important is being

right

and when we're with people who are

coming into presence

together what's important is to be more

beautiful together each

moment and I just don't want us while

we're here today I would like if we did

something else to cling to our pet

biases and previous positions and

resentments and so forth and look you

know if it's important let's let's get

it on the table and talk about it but

you know we have in this moment this

unique opportunity of being together and

seeing and learning together in a way

that I think is astonishing and

beautiful let's take the wildest kind of

advantage of that to whatever degree

we're

able

maybe

arly

um I I'm just I'm going to add a

suggestion

that when um people are out in the

bo you know you here on this cou that

they

observe you know even if they're not in

good surrounds they observe things of

Duty or moments of

beauty because you can build on

that and I'm obviously very interested

in in

um what Daren is saying about you know

this communion of groups what they can

do together

yeah

yeah it's not just the observation of

the of beauty it's the becoming

beautiful together with and for each

other in the history and future of all

beings I know that sounds like a kind of

tall order but it's not tall at all we

can do it instantaneously the moment

that we agree it starts to happen the

only real thing that's required is our

agreement that we'd like to go in that

direction together and we can bring up

and discuss and dissect the problems of

the planet the problem of the humans all

the dark things that plague us we can

look at those but we'll be able to see

them from above rather than from within

and or you know rather than from the

perspective of a separated person inside

a [ __ ] nightmare machine and that is

how it really feels to be a human for

lots of humans right this moment and to

some degree for me I mean a few months

ago I met met a young woman we've been

friends on Facebook for a long time and

this goes back to mix question about

parts and what happens when they're lost

and so

on um we've been friends on Facebook for

some time and I saw a uh a post of hers

that clued me in that something it

alerted me that something really bad had

happened in her life so I went to her

we've never spoken or texted or anything

I went to her page we were just Facebook

friends I went to page and I saw that

um she had in November she was in she

was on a freeway and there was a there

was an accident up ahead and so the

traffic had

stopped and she had to slow down very

rapidly and stop her car and she was

worried that perhaps people behind her

wouldn't be able to stop in

time unfortunately the person behind her

wasn't even aware the traffic had slowed

down probably looking at their

smartphone or drunk or both or who knows

what they were up

to it smashed into the back of her car

and it shattered her spine and she was

paralyzed from the chest

down now I've learned some astonishing

things from conversing with this woman

because what we do when we converse

isn't we we don't just talk about

trouble

um we we make that third

mind suddenly I'm beyond Darren and I

can see into the

history of her and me and us and the

world in a whole new way as if as if

some kind of star was being born that

sheds light whose light isn't mere

illumination it's

insight and so when we're together I

could see in all kinds of ways that I

can't see when I'm by myself and the

same is true with each one of you um

naoko and I we've had astonishing

conversations Nancy and I our first

conversation's amazing we've had a

number since then mostly here um I

haven't had a private conversation with

Beast yet I don't think or Mick maybe

one can't remember but what I'm trying

to get at

is you can lose part of yourself and

still have it right my friend Amber she

doesn't mind me mentioning her name '

already been through this she she has no

she can't feel anything from the chest

down she can't use her legs probably

ever

again right they're still

alive but she

can't they're still biology right

there's still living biology but her

capacity to interact with them with her

awareness ends at one of her

vertebra and someone else that I'm very

close to is in a very similar situation

in fact I really couldn't be closer to

that person um very similar not exactly

the

same so you know the problem of

suffering is profound and the problem of

part and whole is

profound and we can gain insight into

those matters together if that's our

goal but we have to carefully organize I

think our motivations because purpose

produces

process that that leads to progeny and

the progeny are what we think and see

and

believe and we should be really careful

about that last thing belief except in a

pretty limited you know scope of you

know I believe that my desk is physical

and isn't going to just become a

different thing or disappear in the next

few

moments um but yeah we can you know when

we bring our minds together with the

intention to learn to see beyond what

we've seen

before to resist the preservation of our

pet resentments and biases and

figurations of reality and existence and

the humans and so forth then we have the

chance to fly and I'm not very

interested in being nailed to the cross

of my history or my biases I want to

learn I want to go where I've never been

before and our minds you know humans

think a lot the the humans some of them

they think a lot about flying through

space and stuff that's not even vaguely

interesting compared to what we've got

right here because what we've got right

here is everything everything everyone

is here everyone before us everyone

after us every Star every planet every

World they are right

here again it's this problem of the

stuff we think is outside us and we

think it's outside in space but but we

also can think it's outside in

time so I'm just so excited to have the

chance to take off the costume of my

individuality with you and learn to see

and grow and play and explore together

that's what I think is absolutely

amazing and I trust it I really trust

that please write this down from the

beginning of the time you spoke about it

um um if you would I know you have the

recording

D yes presuming nothing bad happens with

the recording I will try

that okay you know what you said about

the uh I just seen something recently

about how basically living in a city is

psychosis in and of itself people become

psychotic literally from living in a

city in the sense that we weren't meant

to live with any more than like 200

people that we knew at time because once

you go beyond that people just stand by

when things happen that they would never

stand by if they you know were in a

circumstance where they knew the people

you know whether it's an accident or

whatever so yeah I think if you writee

this down it would be yeah you were

talking about the bystander

effect yeah but it doesn't occur if

you're people that bystander is

basically

that like a somebody who's not

Psychopathic I'm sorry uh what do you

call it somebody who's a psychopath it's

a psychopathic thing or a sociopathic

thing that you become not me necessarily

or you but people in general become when

they live with too many people where

they feel they can't do anything about

anything you know it all starts locally

you know and and I think that you know

it's just you know if you you know love

locally and do what you're describing

locally that makes a big difference you

know and it's really funny that to say

this that you said today about your pet

you know the pet ideas and things like

that and I I had a real realization this

morning and I was thinking maybe they'll

talk about this because they does seem

to be synchronicity between things for

me right when things are you know true

you certain sense of the word you know

but I can see how my my focus on

people's awareness

about being as opposed to doing and

having is directly proportional to some

not that it isn't true but to my own

lack of doing that

myself you know we're sorry go

ahead let's um not stand Bo let's

um as suggested by Darren let's come

together in

form of communion of

our

um giving

our life sharing our life force to our

attention and good intentions towards

Amber and Dan's

friend that they may feel that life

force through them and it may Aid or

improve their situation in some way oh I

love that yes yes please let's just have

a moment

and direct our communal

mind to both of those

beings and they're healing

it's easy for me to cling to my

isolation and my separation

um now in this phase of my life more

than

ever because I'm very isolated at the

moment

and yet at the same time in in a way in

the way that that being awake charges

the possibility of

dreaming in that same

way my

isolation charges is what takes place

when I come together with other minds

and almost never do I just stay like oh

I'm just going to be

daring that almost never happens like I

don't know what happens but it's the

kind of a thing that happens in in a

chrysalis or a

cocoon not that a caterpillar isn't

[ __ ] amazing a caterpillar is amazing

if you point your if you pointed your

finger at the sky right and you traveled

in a

line 10 million light years long across

that angle that you're pointing in the

sky your chances of encountering a

caterpillar probably

zero I mean it's like a decimal point

with 10 million zeros and then a one at

the end you're not going to find a

caterpillar right time space is amazing

and it's vast but what it doesn't have

is what we got out here

caterpillars and they make these things

we call chrysalises in English or

cocoons and what happens is like when

I'm getting ready to to go together with

some others is I go into that Crysis and

what comes out the other side is sure as

hell ain't me I mean it's using my mouth

and it it utilizes Darren's body and his

memories and his ideas and

stuff but one of the weird features of

that is

that I know this is a strange thing to

say but I have memories of having an

angel's mind with mine and I have

memories of thinking the way that Angels

think and what I mean by Angel isn't

that regular thing in the

Bible it's some kind of transcendental

intelligence or maybe even it's the

logos and so when we're talking I try to

get the hell out of the way and let the

transcendental intelligence that I

remember being

with Come and sing and play and speak

and learn and grow and shine light on

things and every one of us has this you

don't have to be me to have this we all

have this we have like these layers far

above our personal identity from which

we

can participate in relation in

conversation in

Exploration discovery in healing in

Wonder in awe in play in astonishment in

in Beauty and I absolutely believe in

that and I also believe that it I can't

stop

Israel I can't stop grocery

stores and the slaughter

houses but I might be able to affect the

situation or maybe we might be able to

affect the situation in a not directly

physical interventionist fashion by how

and when we come together and what we do

when we

do beautifully put

I hardly

agree I

I so we have an agreement here seems

like pretty much everybody here agrees

and there are some things that are so

amazing and beautiful that everybody

will agree you know people say things

like well you can't change the world the

humans are all [ __ ] up and they're

doing these bad things and they're not

going to stop them yeah we might not

stop them we might not be able to

intervene

um

mechanically but what if we Chang the

veilance of the

field of the mind of the network of

Minds in which we participate by just

adjusting the polarity the purpose of

coming together we have these things

called churches which are really weird

um but but there's something Beyond a

church where humans could come together

momentarily and just become like so much

more human than they've ever been over

the past months and weeks and years and

hours of their

lives

and like actually be alive together even

for an

hour and that kind of a thing when it

happens it sends shock waves through the

entire network of human Minds the

problem is we're not we're coming

together for the wrong reasons social

media draws us together to like [ __ ] or

object or you know be triggered or

whatever triggered in one of 19 ways or

be primed to buy something or you know

whatever right but we could Prime each

other for something that actually

matters and I like to think that's what

we're up to here and yes I'm playing you

know preacher on the pulpit a bit I'll

admit it I am but somebody's got to like

the pulpits there let's let's put

something interesting up there

somehow um so yeah human when I was with

the angel one of the things it said is

and of course it never actually spoke it

just made my mind it structured my

awareness alike with its awareness by

its proximity sort of like that

morphological field stuff in the

sheldrake thing that uh Nancy mentioned

earlier um or morphogenic Fields excuse

me it structured My Mind by its

proximity but one of the things that I

became aware of that it saw was

that one of the greatest Powers human

beings have is

agreement and that's what's being

mediated by social

media when we're participating in that

we're mostly making a bad mistake and

and if we're not participating

intelligently we're also making a bad

mistake so it's not just like it's only

bad but it's really bad in what it's

doing to the humans and their the

network of their minds we need to do

something different from that um

dramatically soon but my point is just

that

um when we agree with something truly

beautiful that makes medicine for all

beings and they all get interested every

one of my ancestral mothers wakes up for

a moment in her grave and was like did

he just do he did what he did something

so beautiful that it woke me up from you

I'm making a joke kind of right but but

yeah the the beings of history and the

beings of the future they are watching

us with great interest and concern and

they're hoping that we're going to like

we're going to sit up in the Crypt of

modern civilization and do something

[ __ ] amazing

beautiful they're aching for it that's

what they worked and sweat and swe and

suffered for that one possibility that

we could become that their children

could become beautiful together and

liberate and heal and adore each other

and wake up together and come into

insight and awareness I know this this

starting to sound like like a Church

sermon I really believe in these things

I'm not I'm not reading from the

script that's that's obvious I mean

really you know I mean I know I just

said this if there's any way you can

write up the intention I think this is

the intention for the group I don't

think anybody would disagree with that

but maybe I'm Voice or objections but I

mean I do think that is the intention of

the group and

maybe I this is just a thought maybe we

could we could in our initial when

people come on board to the group we

could have it as that silent connection

of um I mean I'm going to say the word

prayer although it's intention you can

call it whatever you want just like we

did a moment ago for for your friend and

whoever else you know maybe there's some

way we can also create a group mind in

Our intention to connect and have the

right Beauty come from the group you

know and that that it's not so much that

so important that we talk about things

you know that we you're focusing on that

that could be too but more start with a

feeling more start with a connection

more start with the kind of thing that

you're talking about Darren you know as

a as a beginning to you know if you kind

of start the day so to speak I don't

know if anybody's open to that or they

think that's a good idea all that's just

a thought

I oh that's brilliant yes um in fact you

reminded me that Sophie used to have

sort of an introductory moment and I got

involved in that and we should um have a

kind of an introductory moment and also

a closing moment and you know previously

I was

um I had concerns about taking over the

extinction AI distinction AI Lord Hugh

historical pyate

ship um but I think those concerns have

mostly gone away and we can just do

whatever hell we want so yeah we should

maybe Forge a

new

um desidera a

new a

Manifesto and um and mention some of

these things I like that

idea I'm going to walk away from the mic

for a couple minutes I'll be back feel

free to uh take a break or you know we

might wind up soon if there's no if

there's no further interest but um I'll

be back in like five minutes actually I

I'm actually going

to sorry feedback I'm going to stop now

because it's late to

go great to see you much appreciation

man yeah thank you

byebye I should go as well um it was a

very nice chatting

B all right let's do the uh closing very

briefly before you take off naoko

um so what Sophie used to do which I

thought was really interesting is she

would say let's just take a moment we'll

we'll we'll invent another one of our

own sometime soon but let's just take a

moment to be together and wash away all

of the

history and everything that was

said and everything we thought and felt

and just

cleanse let's

be free together

inside for a moment

it's so good being with you all thank

you thank you I you're

amazing much love to all of you and do

it again next Sunday 11:30 a.m. PST be

there be something much love he

s okay