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+so yeah I was saying that I have seen
+
+images of what appear to be human
+
+females that have an immediate
+
+transgenic effect that resembles the
+
+effect of exposure to psychedelic drugs
+
+and that I found this extremely
+
+concerning and you asked me why what
+
+about it I found
+
+concerning and I said I don't want to be
+
+exposed
+
+images that can directly hijack my
+
+nervous system and you know like I'm not
+
+even going to yeah I guess I am going to
+
+so in a situation like
+
+that a human being is incapable of
+
+understanding what is being done to
+
+their nervous system and whether or not
+
+they are being covertly programmed or
+
+instructed by such
+
+interactions um there's literally no way
+
+to tell right so what do you mean
+
+there's no way to tell how would you
+
+tell okay so how would you tell if there
+
+are if there's
+
+essentially emotional and psychological
+
+stogy in an image that you're being
+
+exposed to that was designed by a
+
+machine to directly manipulate Andor
+
+instruct you you'd have no way to tell
+
+you can't detect it
+
+can you can you define that word
+
+stenography yeah steganography is the
+
+concealment so one of the things I was
+
+working on with my friend Forest is a
+
+program called
+
+steg that would allow us to do
+
+steganography in any image that we
+
+choose so that we could like post an
+
+image online and only people with the
+
+decryption code could deter could get
+
+the the actual message from the
+
+image Facebook would not be able to
+
+Google would not be able to we could
+
+actually St ston stogi wait
+
+steganography our emails so that they
+
+appeared as glyphs or symbols and only
+
+the person with the key could decrypt
+
+them that would save
+
+us from having our texts scanned by
+
+machines um so steganography which is
+
+often used by
+
+intelligence or gations and also
+
+terrorist
+
+organizations is simply hiding data in a
+
+in a image right so you get an image of
+
+a naked girl it actually has a map of a
+
+military site in
+
+it that kind of
+
+thing so
+
+crazy so what I'm talking about is the
+
+capacity to
+
+stenographically in encode instructions
+
+to human nervous systems in
+
+images so you're you're saying that
+
+there are ways in which images can
+
+influence our Consciousness and and or
+
+our nervous systems that we would have
+
+no way of knowing I mean
+
+that's yeah you're right I wouldn't know
+
+if that was happening at all have no way
+
+to
+
+know I'm not entirely certain
+
+um how that would be possible
+
+ordinary images already hijack your
+
+nervous system
+
+so so then it sounds like what you're
+
+talking about is
+
+unavoidable
+
+um it's not
+
+unavoidable well I'll just close my eyes
+
+then um yeah pral responses aren't going
+
+to help us here but but I mean like like
+
+I can't stop myself from
+
+seeing so then it sounds like if if
+
+images are already hijacking a
+
+Consciousness in that way
+
+then yeah not much to do I just made a I
+
+just did an interview with too
+
+toorak the curator of the beware of
+
+images Facebook
+
+site um he's a graphic designer who's
+
+using images to warn people about their
+
+dangers Facebook throttled the [ __ ] out
+
+of his sight he had 300,000 followers
+
+and then he started getting like four
+
+views on his
+
+posts yeah I just did an interview with
+
+him um what's his name Sergio toor toppo
+
+call him very cool amazing we had an
+
+amazing
+
+talk so my point
+
+was and there's a lot of complex points
+
+here like humans tend to think that our
+
+minds are separate from what's going on
+
+on for example in
+
+computers and they're
+
+not even if there's physical separation
+
+right between my brain and the entire
+
+internet um that that physical
+
+separation is
+
+compromised by the fact that the people
+
+around me are being
+
+influenced um even if there's no right
+
+even if there's like
+
+no even if there's no
+
+metaphysical aspect to a human cognum
+
+which I thoroughly
+
+doubt um the problem with one of the
+
+problems with AI in general and with the
+
+internet first is that it's influencing
+
+everyone around you so you know even if
+
+there is some kind of putative
+
+separation there's no separation you're
+
+going to be influenced whether you use
+
+the internet or not
+
+because you're going to be exposed to
+
+other humans at the very least and
+
+that's presuming separation between your
+
+mind and the human
+
+cognum which there
+
+isn't so does that make any sense so far
+
+yeah for sure okay so even if I don't
+
+look at AI images of women right even if
+
+I just stop seeing them which is going
+
+to be really hard if I'm using the
+
+internet or a smartphone at
+
+all um other people will be looking at
+
+those images and they will be directly
+
+influencing their behavior for certain I
+
+promise you straight up that China and
+
+Russia are on top of this if the United
+
+States
+
+isn't and you know over the past like
+
+three
+
+years I've started to see images of
+
+Asian
+
+women that look nothing like any Asian
+
+woman I've ever seen like huge breasts
+
+thin waist tall tin wide
+
+hips um I'm not saying that no no Asian
+
+women like this exist what I'm saying is
+
+I'm being barraged with these kinds of
+
+images primarily of Chinese
+
+women that's not
+
+accidental right that's that's a
+
+strategy that's being deployed
+
+purposefully by China for
+
+sure so this is quite Terri terrifying
+
+this had not occurred to me as a likely
+
+outcome of
+
+AI uh influence and I mean there's much
+
+weirder possibilities of these teangers
+
+vastly weirder that are quite staggering
+
+I'm not trying to scare you um I just I
+
+take these threats you know I study
+
+human Communications Behavior so this is
+
+my
+
+wheelhouse so what are the repercussions
+
+of being shown these
+
+women um thousands of them you're being
+
+primed right about what's beautiful
+
+what's
+
+desirable um what you can and cannot
+
+have access to at the very very least uh
+
+images of women have always had a
+
+priming effect on the male and female
+
+populations and Nations at least since
+
+the beginning of pornography one of the
+
+driving forces of the development of the
+
+internet um and certainly during the 70s
+
+80s and 90s when magazines like Playboy
+
+and Penthouse and Hustler became
+
+popular but these days I mean it's
+
+vastly vastly more pregnant and you know
+
+multi-branched we're entering the age
+
+where our nervous systems are about to
+
+be directly captured by technology and
+
+most of the people around you are going
+
+to be in that state
+
+so you can you know you can sort of I
+
+don't know what what can actually be
+
+done we have to one of the things that I
+
+think is important that we do as soon as
+
+humanly possible is establish a second
+
+branch of the internet that's protected
+
+from these things because if we don't
+
+it's over I mean it's literally over
+
+dude within a very short period of time
+
+the tech will be able to read your heart
+
+rate um skin conductance uh pupil
+
+dilation your
+
+respiration and surface sweat on your
+
+body it'll also be able to read and
+
+analyze micro gestures in your facial
+
+muscles once that kind of [ __ ] happens
+
+it's we're [ __ ] done for we've got to
+
+inter we've got to produce a second
+
+branch of the internet that we can know
+
+cannot be subjected to such Technologies
+
+and if the Technologies become UB
+
+so that they're unavoidable then then
+
+the second branch has to utilize them
+
+for our
+
+benefit right we have to collect that
+
+data ourselves analyze it ourselves and
+
+use it to educate ourselves and perhaps
+
+produce
+
+immunity I feel like there's a fallacy
+
+in that I'd love for you to show it to
+
+me uh like sort of using the same
+
+technology that you're scared that will
+
+destroy us to try and help us it seems
+
+like that that's uh
+
+I let me try to put it into
+
+words so it's not just a feeling
+
+um it seems
+
+risky because how could you know that
+
+it's not being compromised and
+
+also
+
+um you know I've heard the argument
+
+enough times that technology is neutral
+
+it's the way that you use it but you
+
+know I'm suspicious of the internet
+
+being a positive thing
+
+period
+
+so why
+
+would why would trying to use it in
+
+similar ways that it's being used
+
+against us be good for
+
+us like it seems like unplugging would
+
+be the the best move for no chance of
+
+that helping you everyone around you
+
+doesn't have another
+
+option every single person you
+
+know and the cultures you live in don't
+
+have another option I mean we just
+
+witnessed the result of scops on the
+
+United States in the
+
+election so what are you g to do like
+
+leave organized
+
+countries I there are some options you
+
+could move to Tamara in
+
+Portugal right go totally off grid but
+
+Tamara is in
+
+Portugal
+
+so you know where you g to go outer
+
+space but um I can address each of those
+
+objections I think and by the way when
+
+you hear that little sound in the
+
+background that's just a noise to remind
+
+us that we're being recorded since the
+
+iPhones now have the option to record
+
+calls which I've been waiting for
+
+for um all right so the first objection
+
+is how can we use a technology that's
+
+harming us to benefit
+
+us um in other words how can we use a
+
+technology that's harming us to protect
+
+us from the technology that's harming us
+
+and we're facing this particular problem
+
+with every aspect of
+
+cognition because you're being scripted
+
+by the English language and by the users
+
+of English around you to exerpt your
+
+experiential world according to the
+
+rules and categories of commonly used
+
+English that's extremely [ __ ]
+
+dangerous so if it's true that we can't
+
+use techn Tech ology to protect us from
+
+the technology we're trying to protect
+
+ourselves from then it should be
+
+impossible for us to learn things about
+
+language and our relationship with
+
+categories and identity that would give
+
+us immunity to some of the gambits that
+
+we're subject to as users of English we
+
+can't get rid of language we live in a
+
+world where languages
+
+everywhere um but we can actually learn
+
+about language in the same way we can
+
+learn about
+
+psychology or neural linguistic
+
+programming or priming of humans with
+
+images and um
+
+scenes uh so all of these things we can
+
+learn about and in the ways that we
+
+learn about them we will gain some
+
+degree of Liberty from their effect we
+
+have the same problem with machines we
+
+can't get rid of machines they're
+
+killing
+
+everything um but it doesn't but if
+
+we're going to be forced to use machines
+
+we could use them more
+
+intelligently that's one of my
+
+perspectives on the first
+
+question or the first objection excuse
+
+me so um would you agree that by
+
+learning more about how we
+
+cognize and language's effects on us we
+
+can acquire some immunity from some of
+
+those effects yeah I definitely believe
+
+that okay me too otherwise we're kind of
+
+done with talking right like there's no
+
+chance for um and would you also agree
+
+that the ordinary uneducated language
+
+user is subject to a variety of con
+
+games gambits
+
+and um dis empowerments that that occur
+
+uh
+
+naturally I would say that they're not
+
+only vulnerable to that they're also
+
+likely um producing it the same way that
+
+a virus injects a cell and then starts
+
+to make itself brilliant we agree about
+
+that I yes they are um
+
+reproducing the
+
+contagion every time they make face
+
+noises um they're
+
+reinforcing previous
+
+disabling behaviors and perspectives
+
+with language and cognition and
+
+specifically with identity right what
+
+something is as we discussed in that uh
+
+Extinction Audi
+
+meeting okay so that's the first
+
+objection the second objection is oh
+
+that's
+
+dangerous right um I get it and this is
+
+why I have
+
+resisted for nearly 25 years now
+
+attempting to implement the knowledge
+
+amp Tech which would establish a second
+
+branch of the
+
+internet um because I thought it was
+
+dangerous and other people who I you
+
+know ran through the idea with they're
+
+like dude that can just be
+
+captured okay
+
+here's the
+
+problem it's kind of this sort of a
+
+problem if you know someone is going to
+
+invade your
+
+house and Poison every object in there
+
+so
+
+that so that the objects influence you
+
+unconsciously constantly
+
+thereafter you kind of have two
+
+choices you either have to do something
+
+you have to do what they're doing in a
+
+way that you prefer
+
+that will overcome or possibly even
+
+destroy that whole
+
+agenda or you have to sit back and let
+
+them have their way with you and we're
+
+facing the same problem now I used to
+
+think no the knowledge amp is too
+
+dangerous now I think not doing the
+
+knowledge amp is more dangerous than
+
+doing it we've got to at least begin the
+
+process of building technologies that
+
+are pro human Liberty pro- intelligence
+
+pro- human
+
+education and that are separated from
+
+advertising pornography Sops and so
+
+forth AI actually gives us the
+
+capacity to I mean I'm using the word AI
+
+rather uh trivially here what I mean is
+
+heuristic
+
+algorithms um those give us the capacity
+
+to do that stuff with and for each other
+
+in our own way
+
+and we can encrypt the analytic data
+
+with you know very powerful forms of
+
+encryption perhaps um developed by all
+
+um by AI systems so that the analytic
+
+data stays with us and is useless to
+
+anybody who gets a hold of the uh what I
+
+call the
+
+artifact we got to try if if we don't do
+
+something
+
+in a very short period of time I'm
+
+talking less than five years we're not
+
+going to be able to be human
+
+anymore like this is incipient danger
+
+this is like right on the edge of
+
+everything people are worried about
+
+trivial [ __ ] like can where should I
+
+should I really get a house or have a
+
+girlfriend or BL you know I don't really
+
+know about the future no dude there is
+
+some like if nuclear war and
+
+bioweapons were the most significant
+
+threat and those are really significant
+
+threats um I think what I'm talking
+
+about
+
+is presuming that one of that those two
+
+things don't wipe us off the face of the
+
+Earth the threat I'm talking about is
+
+the most dangerous threat at the
+
+moment and and so this threat is very
+
+cognitive heavy it's hugely it's it's
+
+very much in the realm of language and
+
+of uh images images processes it's a lot
+
+of higher order intelligence yeah but it
+
+directly affects the Soma so it's right
+
+like it it transforms the nervous system
+
+immediately it can capture the nervous
+
+the human nervous system I have no
+
+doubt that based on what you're saying
+
+that
+
+um understanding these intelligences in
+
+the way that they manipulate us and use
+
+using them to our
+
+advantage at least just the knowledge
+
+and understanding of how they work is
+
+useful um and I'm also curious in
+
+exploring more sematic
+
+remedies
+
+more um you know how can we use the
+
+intelligences of the body to combat
+
+these higher order things I I think
+
+about it's it's a two-way street so when
+
+my mind is spiraling and when
+
+I'm um hurting because of the mental
+
+constructs that I've trapped myself in I
+
+can use my body as a reliable way I can
+
+focus on my breathing I can calm my
+
+heartbeat I can connect with those older
+
+intelligences to counteract whatever
+
+mental traps that I've put myself in or
+
+I've been put in due to
+
+outside um you know
+
+forces and
+
+so when we're dealing
+
+with such
+
+subliminal um attacks how can I trust my
+
+body how can I trust my nervous system
+
+to help Pull Me Away In addition to that
+
+understanding of the way that these
+
+things work yeah that's brilliant you
+
+want to rely on the oldest stuff you can
+
+possibly touch right and that's
+
+definitely your cells your nervous
+
+system and so
+
+forth however
+
+um so we never want to get rid of that
+
+right that's got to be the
+
+foundation but what's about to happen is
+
+that our bodies aren't going to be our
+
+bodies
+
+anym like literally
+
+um it's possible to directly transform
+
+the human nervous system and
+
+Metabolism now uh and it's going to
+
+become you know that's going to be the
+
+target of every existing
+
+government so I think we've got to
+
+establish um altruistic pro-human
+
+AI systems and a second internet that
+
+um Where We Gather our own analytics for
+
+each
+
+other uh and we can distribute those and
+
+use them in all kinds of astonishing
+
+ways that I've mapped out you know
+
+pieces
+
+of um without compromising our the the
+
+uh security of that information but you
+
+know we're we're right on the verge of
+
+everything we do gets captured and you
+
+know capitalized upon for the sake of
+
+what we think is advertising but it's
+
+actually not going to be advertising
+
+anymore it's going to be straight up
+
+manipulation slavy yeah yeah right on
+
+the verge of it yeah because I mean I
+
+think like okay I can avoid getting
+
+cybernetics that you know would rely on
+
+software which could be manipulated but
+
+then what happens when the chemicals
+
+that are being put in my food is
+
+changing my
+
+metabolism working in tandem with the
+
+other sublimal things that are going on
+
+yeah exactly exactly right um and so my
+
+initial impression my newj reaction is I
+
+need to develop a sense of self and a
+
+sense of community that is based off of
+
+core principles that cannot exist in the
+
+same space as these manipulations
+
+you also said something that
+
+uh is common for humans to think about
+
+right counteract or you can use the word
+
+combat and what I'm proposing is not
+
+combat um anytime we form up I mean this
+
+is something we learn in taii right you
+
+form up against an
+
+opponent it's over in taii that's the
+
+end of the
+
+encounter so we have to do the other
+
+thing we have to give people something
+
+so amazing and
+
+exciting and profound to interact with
+
+and to interact with each other through
+
+that everybody defects from the old
+
+system nobody wants to be left
+
+out we've got to establish a game B in
+
+the words of you know schmachtenberger
+
+and dark web schmachtenberger just
+
+doesn't have this idea yet he's too he's
+
+become hopeless actually he just sees oh
+
+this is the end there's nothing we can
+
+do it's over and as a threat analyst
+
+he's not wrong but he's he's been
+
+defeated by the Deluge of the metac
+
+crisis right and he doesn't see that
+
+it's possible for us to build an
+
+entirely new way of Being Human together
+
+with tech and so then the argument is
+
+the third objection is well can't that
+
+be
+
+captured and the simple answer is yes
+
+anything can be captured true but if we
+
+establish a new branch of civilization
+
+that's not merely resistant to
+
+capture it outperforms the capturing
+
+momenta then we' got
+
+shot right and that's a little bit of
+
+what we do in the
+
+meetings you know for a couple of hours
+
+we're about
+
+insight and I I think one of the changes
+
+in the meetings happened since I've been
+
+um more active in them is it's gone from
+
+Doom singing which was the primary focus
+
+of the meetings to opportunity
+
+space and that's the shift we need right
+
+that's part of what you're talking about
+
+when you say I want to be in touch with
+
+my body I want
+
+to use the ancient
+
+intelligences in me and as me to resist
+
+but resistance
+
+as you know it's it's it's a losing game
+
+if you're trying to resist Mount Everest
+
+or the ocean or whatever right right for
+
+sure you have to either establish a new
+
+path that
+
+um that operationalizes the momentums
+
+around you for your
+
+benefit yeah right something like that
+
+yeah I think that's where language fails
+
+me or Fails Like translating what I'm
+
+feeling because yeah it's not like I
+
+would was
+
+imagining you know people like arming to
+
+banding together and like squeezing
+
+their butt cheeks against the hole it's
+
+more like
+
+um how can
+
+I maintain that Clarity and and that
+
+ability
+
+to
+
+um
+
+hold what's beautiful and not just you
+
+know mination and um
+
+enslavement how can we make more
+
+bubbles in the
+
+manifold then yes rebubble IE that's the
+
+primary thing right as the manifold is
+
+collapsing Mo reactivity just causes
+
+more rapid
+
+collapse um so we have to rebubble lie
+
+so to speak which means produce new
+
+um new features in the opportunity space
+
+and we've got to get the humans going
+
+from resistance rejection and conflict
+
+toward
+
+Innovation um Insight
+
+relationship memory intelligence
+
+play um all of these things right
+
+creativity and right now there's nothing
+
+on the table there literally nothing I
+
+mean there's a little bubbling things
+
+that bubble up here and there um most of
+
+them get C pretty quick Burning Man is
+
+one example of such a bubble that is
+
+easily captured was
+
+captured um but yeah we've got to rebiz
+
+and we got to get the humans aware of
+
+the opportunities of rebubble isation so
+
+to
+
+speak so I have a question for you
+
+then a lot of games and I in this sense
+
+I mean like actual games like board
+
+games um you know
+
+they're often competition
+
+based that I play and they're also
+
+um a lot of a lot of games that are
+
+produced are just variations on war y
+
+like teams with different agendas
+
+different strategies capturing territory
+
+by the way that's priming people for
+
+that being the only game in town but
+
+yeah I'm listening yeah and
+
+so that that's concerning to me um me
+
+too that's not not what game should be
+
+and you and I have both played and
+
+enjoyed I think at least a few games
+
+that were Cooperative right where we
+
+come together and my contributions and
+
+your contributions now even the war
+
+games are like that right if you know
+
+say playing um Halo PVP or whatever
+
+right they have this
+
+feature of my skill plus your skill
+
+equals better skills so we form a pod
+
+and then we fight another pod what we
+
+have to do is form pods to fight the
+
+things that are oppressing us rather
+
+than just invented nonsense in Virtual
+
+space right and that's going to be super
+
+exciting if you give people a direct
+
+experience even one time of I form a pod
+
+you form a pod we cooperate to overcome
+
+an actual re real world world problem
+
+boom everybody's going to want in on
+
+that [ __ ] they're G to it there's
+
+nothing as addictive as an actual effect
+
+in the world of human and and or you
+
+know organismal
+
+beings so we can produce something much
+
+more effective and addictive than what
+
+we're being you know than the forces
+
+that are
+
+decohering
+
+our human intelligence and communal you
+
+know
+
+nature we can't get rid of the tech but
+
+we can redeploy it
+
+yeah I guess I'm getting a little lost
+
+in the weeds because my point of
+
+bringing up that that sort of Game
+
+Theory War like strategy games that seem
+
+to you know just come back over and over
+
+again with different variations yeah by
+
+the way just what's amazing about that
+
+and please keep you know don't lose your
+
+your train of thought but that's a
+
+perfect example of a thris right it just
+
+keeps producing new forms of the same
+
+thris right each one that grabs the
+
+nervous system a little more it ratchets
+
+its its grip on the nervous system a
+
+little more tightly that's the whole
+
+goal so that that's
+
+self-replicating so hold that in one
+
+hand in the other hand we're
+
+also um talking about like oh you know
+
+there is a group of people you know who
+
+are taking advantage of these holes and
+
+people's understanding of Their Own
+
+Consciousness and they are manipulating
+
+them
+
+um somewhere in the lines of like
+
+testing to see how much it works and now
+
+also just kind of in like oh we have an
+
+agenda we G to use this to right so
+
+they're doing gain of function research
+
+on way to manipulate humans and they can
+
+do that these days extremely cheaply and
+
+unimaginably quickly go ahead and so you
+
+and I see that as a problem for sure and
+
+in the old in the old framework you
+
+would say that that that makes them an
+
+enemy can the idea of an enemy exist in
+
+the framework of wanting to produce more
+
+bubbles more cooperation more Beauty
+
+rather than resist compete fight
+
+brilliant question so this is the
+
+problem of the dream
+
+assassin um because ordinarily what
+
+introduces not ordinarily very commonly
+
+what portends the end of dreaming is the
+
+introduction of an
+
+enemy um and we should pay very careful
+
+attention to the anciently evolved
+
+intelligences that are involved in our
+
+dreaming
+
+experience in this
+
+way because they can teach us what to do
+
+instead in the same way that we can
+
+learn how to overcome the influence of
+
+the dream assassin the collaps of the
+
+dreams which isn't always the right idea
+
+by the
+
+way um we can take cues from that
+
+learning and transfer them to excuse me
+
+our human uh
+
+experience and situation in societies
+
+with technology so yeah the important
+
+thing isn't to identify an enemy right
+
+this is why when I was
+
+posing a
+
+figure about
+
+uh what humans can do together to get an
+
+experience of the opposite of
+
+combat that's very
+
+compelling right the goal isn't an enemy
+
+it's a problem that we want to overcome
+
+together right we want to take a
+
+situation that's causing harm and
+
+suffering and transfer that transform
+
+that into a situation that results in
+
+new intelligence new opportunities an
+
+expansion of the opportunity space for
+
+the people
+
+were previously suffering and so forth
+
+and humans are very capable of this they
+
+do it all the time just not doing it in
+
+an organized way yet or at least they're
+
+not doing it large scale in
+
+organiz sorry I got a little I was
+
+listening but I was also um having a
+
+hard time following because I was also
+
+thinking at the same time okay you know
+
+what happens yeah I do that too so I I
+
+lost you in in instead of it being being
+
+an
+
+enemy um instead of that dream assassin
+
+thing sort of happening yeah it's
+
+troubleshooting and
+
+transformation okay and so we're still
+
+identifying a problem yeah we're not
+
+treating it as an enemy we're
+
+transmuting it into what more Beauty
+
+like like no way let me let me say very
+
+clearly what we're doing so we identify
+
+a problem that becomes an opportunity
+
+space for our own Mutual relational
+
+development Liberation and joy
+
+MH right so we use the problem to climb
+
+the ladder of our developmental
+
+Humanity which is what we all were
+
+hoping for when we got born
+
+here is a is a chance to experience
+
+ecstasy in this form and also ecstasis
+
+from The Prisoner systems that are
+
+trapping and oppressing us and
+
+ratcheting down their grip on what it
+
+means to be
+
+human if we fight those systems they
+
+just ratchet faster
+
+right you're feeding it yeah
+
+exactly I I really appreciate this
+
+conversation and I trust our ability to
+
+pick up where we left off but ER uh
+
+someone is calling me that needs my help
+
+so can I get back to you yeah absolutely
+
+appreciate
+
+you we were talking about how vigilance
+
+ambiguity and prediction form a triangle
+
+that underlies most human anxiety and um
+
+if not all of it it's hard to fent
+
+anxiety without these three PS that's
+
+getting activated and vigilance isn't
+
+just about see about watching things
+
+vigilance also has to do with being
+
+observed and um men and women uh
+
+historically and presently tend it's not
+
+a law it's a principle to have different
+
+concerns about this though both of them
+
+are seers and both of them are
+
+observed um this is why we have the idea
+
+of flexing uh which is to you know make
+
+a
+
+display but
+
+traditionally the symbol of the woman in
+
+front of the
+
+mirror um points up the the feminine
+
+fascination with being the focus of
+
+observation uh and things like
+
+um
+
+sports right
+
+traditionally uh point up the focus the
+
+the male
+
+um aspect of being observed being
+
+observed performing excellent acts and
+
+so
+
+forth effectively in the psyche the
+
+masculine aspect tends to want to
+
+see and The Feminine aspect tends to
+
+want to be seen of course there there's
+
+very there really complex stuff here
+
+because the feminine aspect does not
+
+want to be seen in the ways it does not
+
+want to be seen
+
+um and the masculine aspect tends to I
+
+don't actually know what the
+
+vulnerability there is we're all
+
+vulnerable to negative
+
+observational stuff so what I was
+
+pointing out is in a situation
+
+where someone's anxious about something
+
+and there's
+
+ambiguity um for
+
+example I mean we can create an example
+
+everything that we're anxious about at
+
+mous let's say the example I came up
+
+with was
+
+um I got a new cell phone and I can't
+
+connect it to the internet and I've been
+
+trying for three days I've been on the
+
+phone with text support they've sent me
+
+two new SIM cards it's not
+
+working now I can't tell when so there's
+
+temporal ambiguity I can't tell when or
+
+if the problem will ever be solved and
+
+there's also situational ambiguity right
+
+I need the phone to connect to the
+
+Internet it's I have to be able to do
+
+that so in some cases what happens
+
+particularly in psychosis or
+
+schizophrenia or extreme
+
+anxiety is that the left hemisphere will
+
+gladly this is what I discovered when I
+
+learned these principles by observing my
+
+own family members under high
+
+stress um in in many cases and the
+
+American election is an example of this
+
+in a situation of high
+
+ambiguity oh [ __ ] oh I got to write this
+
+in my essay I just published wow yeah
+
+this is really important in a situation
+
+of high ambiguity left hemispheric
+
+processes in human cognition will gladly
+
+prefer to generate a
+
+crisis they will go for Pure disaster
+
+because disaster is a role we know we
+
+know how disaster works we know what our
+
+role is in science it we don't know how
+
+just being human and improvising works
+
+and this is an important
+
+um this is an important pivot to
+
+introduce to the friend we were speaking
+
+about earlier the the usefulness of
+
+improvisation and just being fully human
+
+in a situation where there's High
+
+ambiguity and we feel at
+
+risk because normally what we will do is
+
+we will accept one of three
+
+roles that are familiar to us because we
+
+know how they work and those rules are
+
+victim persecutor and
+
+rescuer and those rules are very
+
+attractive because we extremely familiar
+
+with how they how they are structured
+
+how they function and what outcomes they
+
+produce
+
+so this is what's called the drama
+
+triangle right victim persecutor rescuer
+
+and people can switch roles in in a
+
+dramatic situation the point I'm making
+
+is something really trippy which is
+
+that we will accept shitty roles because
+
+we're not comfortable with improvising
+
+or expanding our Humanity we're
+
+comfortable with what's
+
+familiar historically and habitually
+
+emotionally psychologically
+
+relationally so people just reenact
+
+these roles over and over again instead
+
+of allowing themselves to improvise
+
+especially if they feel threatened by
+
+the vigilance ambigu Beauty prediction
+
+triangle and it's it's important to
+
+encourage them to improvise that gives
+
+them a
+
+move where they don't have one you if
+
+they realize that they're reenacting a
+
+habitual role because it's familiar that
+
+can actually unlock the cage for them
+
+does that make any sense oh yeah for
+
+sure so now I'm gonna say something even
+
+weirder I realized when I discovered
+
+this problem with familiar roles that
+
+actors actually do something really
+
+trippy they take a familiar
+
+structure that should be dead inside
+
+because it's just the repetition of some
+
+Trope right some um some role right
+
+almost always that role is victim
+
+persecutor or rescuer right hero it
+
+takes some familiar
+
+role and instead of just becoming the
+
+rote structure of the role they come to
+
+life inside it they improvise inside the
+
+role thus demonstrating to us the key to
+
+the cage of our own human foible of just
+
+the the continual enactment of a role
+
+that's dead inside what do you
+
+think so you're saying they breathe life
+
+into a Trope that's been used over and
+
+over again how they come to life inside
+
+one of the structured roles of Vicor
+
+vitim persecutor or rescuer that
+
+ordinarily is just a historical
+
+reenactment right they take a structured
+
+role and they improvise inside the lines
+
+of that role thus making the role become
+
+inspired and Alive vitalizing it so
+
+they're actually showing us how to do
+
+that in our own lives and that's part of
+
+why we become fascinated with them even
+
+though we don't know this usually
+
+it kind of goes back to our some
+
+previous conversation about how the
+
+games we play are
+
+often domination war-based games yes at
+
+least you know video games and board
+
+games and so then you look at movies and
+
+yeah that victim rescuer and persecutor
+
+is the story that's it's just over and
+
+over and over again exactly and when we
+
+like you know when you called me
+
+initially I called you some kind of a
+
+name and then you asked me what I was
+
+doing and then I said something
+
+completely ridiculous that I would never
+
+do right and so we're even though it
+
+sounds like guys just doing the guy
+
+thing together we're actually
+
+improvising within the we were actually
+
+improvising within the role for
+
+sure and so when when guys like quote
+
+unquote [ __ ] talk to each other
+
+other um that's part of what they're
+
+doing is they're they're doing that
+
+thing that the dogs do when they wrestle
+
+except they're doing it mostly in
+
+language they're exchanging
+
+insults that if it were
+
+serious would cause fights but since
+
+it's
+
+playful it it just it's like a bonding
+
+ritual it's interesting because I I
+
+listen to a story and The Story
+
+Goes Darren and Nate were taking a walk
+
+and they had a great time and they saw
+
+this beautiful thing and they did this
+
+beautiful thing and they uh you know met
+
+a
+
+squirrel and it was sick and we helped
+
+it so there's The Rescuer you know
+
+victim Trope um y yada yada yada and
+
+it's basically just 30 hours of good
+
+thing after good thing oh something bad
+
+thing happens oh okay here's the
+
+resolution good thing good good thing
+
+good
+
+like that's not the interesting story
+
+the the the the thing that makes a
+
+million dollars in the movie theater is
+
+tension all the way um ambiguity it's
+
+it's playing with
+
+that and by the way it wakes up the
+
+vigilance of the viewer because and how
+
+does it do that it introduces negative
+
+ambiguity right and then it causes them
+
+to start making predictions
+
+right and then and then that's the game
+
+you can play with those predictions you
+
+can have plot
+
+twists yeah exactly the moment you know
+
+there's a murder you're trying to figure
+
+out who did
+
+it right you're just scripted to do
+
+this I used to go to movies with my dad
+
+when I was a kid and this would really
+
+[ __ ] me up we'd be like in scene two of
+
+the movie he's like that guy killed that
+
+person and I'm like what
+
+like he had figured out the
+
+language of
+
+drama to a degree like his predictive
+
+capacities were
+
+astonishing and he thought there was
+
+something metaphysical to this I only
+
+discovered this later after he died
+
+actually he thought he had a
+
+system maybe he
+
+did but I mean if you're playing with
+
+the confines of like movies and and art
+
+that that's a lot that it's hard to for
+
+me to feel safe projecting that out into
+
+real life experiences not to say that
+
+the movies and art we make isn't a
+
+reflection of daily occurrences but I
+
+think that movies and stuff is a lot
+
+more
+
+contained than the metaphysical nature
+
+of humans it's true yeah no it's true
+
+because the movie is happening in a box
+
+literally right it's a literal frame so
+
+most of reality is missing and within
+
+that frame it's not too hard to solve
+
+problems but all of us get reads on
+
+humans and we do make predictions
+
+whether they're conscious or not about
+
+the person's Integrity their
+
+desirability as a relational partner all
+
+these things and one of the things that
+
+um no I'm not going to say
+
+that so my my dad for example was
+
+extremely good at reading opportunity
+
+spaces and also at reading
+
+[Music]
+
+people he had a kind of natural flare
+
+and part of this is because he went from
+
+a place where the ambiguity and
+
+complexity is extremely high and
+
+compressed I.E Brooklyn New
+
+York it's
+
+California right so immediately he's a
+
+big fish playing in a small pond
+
+in in New York right the number of
+
+events per second the temporal
+
+compression the relational compression
+
+is way higher in Brooklyn than it is
+
+anywhere in
+
+California right there just so so he
+
+went from a a position of really high
+
+compression where he learned his skills
+
+to a position of much lower compression
+
+he had an
+
+advantage he definitely had an advantage
+
+from that and this is how New Yorkers
+
+tend to think when they come to
+
+California I mean I saw some lady I was
+
+in the line at the grocery store up the
+
+street there's like I don't know eight
+
+people in line right this lady comes in
+
+and she's gonna buy some batteries and
+
+she's uh she just gets she just goes to
+
+the second position the person right
+
+after the the you know the person who's
+
+being checked out at the
+
+moment and I I looked at her and I
+
+said are you from New York like how did
+
+you
+
+know I was like because only somebody
+
+from New York would think that they
+
+could just you know because she's like
+
+well my my car's parked outside I I got
+
+my blinkers on I gotta you know I'm like
+
+yeah you're from New
+
+York she she doesn't give a [ __ ] about
+
+the line she's just like these are a
+
+bunch of Californians I can just
+
+manipulate the [ __ ] out of this who's
+
+gonna stop
+
+me so yeah compression matters and what
+
+you were saying about the film is true
+
+right it's a small box there's a limited
+
+number of variables much more limited
+
+than than with actual humans but my dad
+
+and other people like you and me if we
+
+want to and you know there's two
+
+different there's sort of two major
+
+branches of this the first is altruistic
+
+opportunism which is something you and I
+
+are both very highly focused on I think
+
+and the other is U manipulative like
+
+selfish opportunism
+
+right
+
+and so we can certainly expand the
+
+skills we would
+
+use in the Triangle of vigilance
+
+ambiguity
+
+prediction when we're watching a film we
+
+can transfer those skills to real
+
+life you know I it's interesting because
+
+that
+
+altruism um it's been an interesting
+
+ride you know just kind of getting into
+
+that mindset of like it ain't all about
+
+Nathan
+
+um and realizing the the relationship
+
+between when I take risks I sacrifice my
+
+own security for the well-being of
+
+others I'm often rewarded for that it
+
+becomes a very interesting dance
+
+of
+
+um how much should I be
+
+intellectualizing altruism versus
+
+enacting it from a place that altruism
+
+tends to pour out of like a Wellspring
+
+which is the heart
+
+uh you know I use love as a North
+
+star um I I that's a personal word
+
+because when you tend to use love in
+
+most circles people think they're
+
+talking about the same thing but they're
+
+often have vastly different
+
+relationships with that word sure like
+
+all words right yeah exactly
+
+um and I find that when I use the
+
+intelligence of my body in these
+
+emotions of giving you know care
+
+forgiveness um
+
+um not martyr ISM but allowing myself to
+
+be seen as undesirable
+
+things with the recognition that there
+
+are higher truths and more Beauty to
+
+come from those kind of positions I
+
+realize that I'm playing a
+
+game
+
+that
+
+um is constantly putting me in that
+
+position of uncertainty it's constantly
+
+putting me in like a I have no idea I
+
+cannot predict what's going to happen um
+
+when I give away resources to people
+
+that I may never see again
+
+or um
+
+decide not to go make a bunch of money
+
+building bombs because I know that those
+
+bombs are going to go kill people and
+
+that doesn't align to my altruistic
+
+values
+
+um I give up security
+
+for you know the absence of something
+
+so all that being said I'm rapidly
+
+becoming more and more comfortable
+
+with very little it was kind of kind of
+
+not being able to see past my nose
+
+But continuing continuing to be met in
+
+life with beauty and with
+
+reciprocity it's it's very it's
+
+fascinating journey and I'm
+
+wondering what that stirs up in you okay
+
+so this goes back
+
+to let's let's just be clear
+
+historically you were experimenting with
+
+your capacity to manipulate situations
+
+is that not
+
+true sure mostly unconsciously sure but
+
+I think often consciously too because
+
+you're you're in extremely insightful
+
+and I see you as quite intelligent in
+
+the sense of the capacity to understand
+
+variables and you know um do what's
+
+needed to get the result you want which
+
+could be understood as C cunning you're
+
+you're potentially cunning sure um
+
+and what happened for you I think was
+
+that you underwent and you're still in
+
+the process you underwent a
+
+transformation um in which you you
+
+started to realize wait there's there's
+
+like five other games I could play play
+
+and if I'm after rewards the kinds I
+
+can't expect easily are actually better
+
+than the ones I'm familiar with right
+
+okay so and similar to me I I realized
+
+early on like the rewards I get from
+
+random acts of
+
+altruistic experiment are much more
+
+satisfying than the ones that I get from
+
+manipulation even though I too am
+
+capable of
+
+manipulation so we both switched over
+
+and here's the thing that happened
+
+we switch from the mechanical in
+
+um
+
+the sorry is that siren bothering you no
+
+I can't hear it at all okay um we
+
+switched
+
+from mechanical utilitarian evaluations
+
+of
+
+reward to
+
+risk right and part of how we switched
+
+was by going from
+
+wrote analysis and and mechanical
+
+manipulation of variables in the
+
+relation space and the opportunity space
+
+to
+
+play this is what I was talking about
+
+earlier with the switch to improvisation
+
+from a familiar role we don't know how
+
+it works we don't know what the outcome
+
+is we don't even know if we get a reward
+
+right it's not merely the delayed reward
+
+experiment of you you know can the
+
+monkey sit in front of two bananas for
+
+three three hours knowing that they're
+
+going to get five later or do they have
+
+to eat the bananas right
+
+now it's not just that it's something
+
+much much more profound which is to play
+
+sincerely to be authentic and vulnerable
+
+and alive and creative in a situation
+
+where other people are tending to play
+
+in a more utilitarian
+
+sense so we learned
+
+that we can discover new features of our
+
+Humanity by improvising and taking the
+
+risk of moving Outside The Familiar
+
+roles and outside our intellectual or
+
+opportunistic capacity to manipulate
+
+circumstances now look if I'm relating
+
+with a
+
+corporation I don't give a [ __ ] about
+
+altruism that's not a human being I want
+
+benefits right now yeah I think I make
+
+that mistake quite often
+
+interesting that you called it a mistake
+
+say
+
+more all right where did we leave off
+
+all right so we're talking about the
+
+switch from rote or analytical
+
+utilitarian evaluation of role and
+
+reward to improvisation where the reward
+
+itself doesn't become the goal what
+
+becomes the goal is something like
+
+relational Integrity experiment play
+
+improv right
+
+um and that's risky because we know how
+
+to manipulate things we're intelligent
+
+we're insightful we can see some
+
+variables but what I was saying earlier
+
+is if I'm interacting with a
+
+corporation I don't give a [ __ ] about
+
+altruism now if I'm interacting with a
+
+person in an organization I care about
+
+that person but I want
+
+benefits because they're treating me
+
+like an object and you know as far as
+
+I'm concerned there's no relational
+
+Integrity there um and you were saying
+
+that you you used to make that mistake
+
+you called it a mistake so I wanted to
+
+hear more about why you think that's a
+
+mistake right so like I struggle with
+
+the to steal or not to
+
+steal I I see grocery stores as
+
+incredible evil um not like you know I'm
+
+outstanding in front of it like flipping
+
+it off but like um there are people
+
+starving and yet there's all this
+
+bounceable food just sitting here
+
+rotting being thrown out at the end of
+
+the
+
+day um
+
+and I don't respect the business I don't
+
+respect the institution that it's born
+
+from and
+
+so you know if I can get away with
+
+spending less money there I will for
+
+sure sure
+
+um then you know I have a moral crisis
+
+because I go oh you know I don't agree
+
+with stealing where do I draw that
+
+line um am I making a mistake by viewing
+
+the
+
+corporation you know am I gonna be
+
+punished in some way like like what not
+
+by the law but by some like karmic order
+
+you know
+
+and I don't know how to navigate that
+
+because it gets into the realm of
+
+um the mechanics of the universe that I
+
+don't understand and what exactly
+
+Divinity is and how you know how are the
+
+sets scales and balances balanced at the
+
+end of the day like who who's keeping
+
+score right I don't know right neither
+
+do I but
+
+um we can say something very primordial
+
+and fundamental about this
+
+um the first thing is you didn't invent
+
+language so did you steal language from
+
+humans uh I wouldn't say
+
+so there's lots of things that you
+
+didn't pay for that you received so
+
+what's the difference between things you
+
+receive that you don't pay for and
+
+things you receive that you do pay for
+
+now I think you find that in relation I
+
+agree but that's only if there's
+
+Integrity in the relational manif F
+
+which there naturally is in small human
+
+groups because of
+
+reputation um but in broadscale groups
+
+that goes away what I was going to say
+
+that I think is
+
+primordial
+
+is possess
+
+nothing do not take anything that is not
+
+yours
+
+ever neither emotional nor relationally
+
+nor commercially nor objectively possess
+
+nothing care nothing for
+
+possessions care about
+
+beings adore beings give whatever is
+
+asked ask for as little as
+
+possible that's a primordial guideline
+
+that we can probably
+
+trust but we live in a highly layered
+
+representational environment
+
+where there's all kinds of misbehavior
+
+going on and so in that environment we
+
+should have a layered I think it's
+
+intelligent since we live in this
+
+environment to have a layered
+
+response
+
+um I don't know how to say this
+
+but I'll just be
+
+blunt I'm a
+
+thief I've been stealing [ __ ] since I
+
+was a little
+
+kid
+
+um I don't I I tend to respect the
+
+boundaries of personal
+
+ownership as far as my my thieving goes
+
+right try not to steal from people but I
+
+don't give a part of me doesn't give a
+
+[ __ ] about stealing from organizations
+
+because I don't believe they're
+
+people
+
+yeah I mean that's what I'm navigating
+
+to the primordial principle is always
+
+valid right the thing I said first is
+
+the thing I actually know like I
+
+trust and I can't sorry go ahead I can't
+
+obey it I feel very possessive about
+
+certain
+
+objects it's one of my character
+
+flaws yeah I I don't feel possessive I
+
+don't have necessarily a desire to own
+
+things but I don't I I'm like slowly
+
+eing myself
+
+towards understanding the fact
+
+that I don't know if it's a fact but
+
+some there there's some relationship
+
+with being fed like given being and I
+
+mean that not just in a food way but
+
+like being given the things that you
+
+need
+
+and and playing around with defining
+
+need and versus want
+
+like there's a story happening in all of
+
+our lives
+
+and people talk a lot about alignment
+
+you know with Destiny and with what
+
+they're here to do in this
+
+Incarnation like like being in a body is
+
+a mission of itself and here to relate
+
+in a certain way and that's a very
+
+interesting a very very interesting like
+
+idea to me I I I spend a lot of time
+
+wondering and being curious about this
+
+proposition that's been around for a
+
+long time of Destiny
+
+and this this Incarnation being a very
+
+small part of uh a bigger
+
+picture in terms of like a
+
+soul and so when that comes into play I
+
+go you know logically why would I be
+
+here on
+
+Earth if I how like like is my job to
+
+collect the resources that are then
+
+necessary for me to do the thing I was
+
+meant to do or is
+
+there is that an illusion and and I'm
+
+going to be handed the things that I
+
+need um and I realize I've collapsed the
+
+manifold quite a bit here um with a lot
+
+of you
+
+know scenar with the scenario but it
+
+kind of gives you an insight into what
+
+I'm exploring in all this this altruism
+
+it's like oh when I let
+
+go when I
+
+trust that what will be what I need
+
+capital N
+
+need I trust that that will be given to
+
+me um and everything else is kind of a
+
+distraction or an illusion things start
+
+to move things start to shift around me
+
+and I start to become lighter and feel
+
+Freer because I don't worry so much
+
+about what I possess and I worry a lot
+
+more about my relationship to people and
+
+to just about everything and that has
+
+only benefited
+
+me and yet I don't even though I've been
+
+benefited I don't know if that's because
+
+it's a good
+
+strategy with a weird lore written
+
+around it or if I'm tapping into some
+
+sort of you know universal truth about
+
+Incarnation and while we're here okay so
+
+yeah it does the word you used
+
+strategy right that implies the
+
+utilitarian analysis of variables and
+
+situations so it's not a strategy and
+
+this is the difference between
+
+approaching relationships and situations
+
+analytically and the thing I was talking
+
+about earlier right um because the
+
+analytical rule is
+
+obviously selfish and
+
+opportunistic yeah it's about what do I
+
+get and weirdly the altruistic rule in
+
+my view in my felt sense is not about
+
+what do I get it's about who do I
+
+become it's about
+
+role right and so improvising that role
+
+learning to be human in a situation
+
+where we are at
+
+risk and resisting the
+
+urge to deal utilitarian in a
+
+utilitarian fashion that is you know
+
+quote pragmatic
+
+unquote is part of the process of
+
+becoming human because we're not I think
+
+actually we are probably kind of born
+
+human with all of our potential
+
+faculties in nent form but what we're
+
+exposed to in human culture and Lang
+
+when we undergo in culturation and in
+
+languaging that adds a layer that that
+
+is very [ __ ] confusing and painful to
+
+relate with it doesn't make sense
+
+and so many of us respond to that and
+
+it's relatively natural to respond to
+
+that opportunistically well if it's
+
+about if it's about
+
+accounting then I'm gonna get the
+
+stuff right [ __ ] those other people this
+
+is about
+
+me um much like I do not want to play
+
+the accounting game I really don't it's
+
+so yeah you're you're you you okay the
+
+accounting game let's be really clear
+
+the accounting game appears to be useful
+
+in an accounting sense but it's the most
+
+expensive game you can play because you
+
+can live your life and not have a moment
+
+of Being
+
+Human so that that game becomes more
+
+expensive every time we play
+
+it we have to I guess I'm willing to
+
+completely relinquish that game Al
+
+together and put my full faith in you
+
+know this invisible force
+
+but I don't I I obviously haven't done
+
+that because on some level I don't
+
+really believe that it's there I just
+
+know that I'm relating with something
+
+that seems like it's there does that
+
+make sense it does but I can I think I
+
+can address that very effectively
+
+sure like when when when am I gonna go
+
+too far with this and then completely
+
+fall
+
+through um here's 's the problem you're
+
+actually using your accountant to try to
+
+make the
+
+determination of whether you should be
+
+free or
+
+not here's here's what I mean you're
+
+trying to figure out whether there's
+
+some invisible force that will reward
+
+you if you're
+
+authentic yeah okay and and here's the
+
+thing that's not part of the
+
+equation whether or not there's an
+
+invisible force that's got your back
+
+you're still using the accountant to try
+
+to be free of the accountant there
+
+doesn't have to be an invisible
+
+force the same thing can be true with or
+
+without any invisible
+
+force all it depends on is authenticity
+
+in
+
+relation and whether you're acting
+
+within the purview of your of the spirit
+
+of your being and the spirit of your
+
+being doesn't have to be
+
+metaphysical
+
+right so you established a false
+
+dichotomy and the false dichotomy is
+
+this only works if there's an invisible
+
+force that has my
+
+back right because otherwise what I'm
+
+doing is suicide no it isn't that's the
+
+accountant talking it's got to be it's
+
+got to be either invisible force or
+
+you're just Reckless and you're going to
+
+die
+
+that's not that's nothing like the game
+
+that is a foot my
+
+friend the game that is a foot has
+
+infinite
+
+Bubbles and so as you move in the bubble
+
+space it actually doesn't
+
+matter first of all your destiny so to
+
+speak is not determined by some
+
+pre-existing set of rules it may be
+
+influenced by them possibly but you set
+
+up a false psychot where either there's
+
+an invisible force that's got my back or
+
+I'm a dead man right that's not true
+
+you're a living man right now whether or
+
+not there's an invisible force you're a
+
+being and you're not just a man you're a
+
+being right you're an organism you're an
+
+animal you're a human you're all of
+
+these things and the big ones are huge
+
+right being is infinite organism is
+
+pretty big animal is gigantic human is
+
+smaller person is very tiny in
+
+comparison I just want to be really
+
+clear like your life's in adventure I
+
+think it's meant to be lived out of a
+
+spirit of beauty and Discovery and
+
+exploration and experiment and play if
+
+if your ability to play has to depend on
+
+whether or not there's some invisible
+
+force that's got your back as long as
+
+you're you know not just doing the
+
+accounting thing no no dude
+
+no that's not there's no part of that
+
+that that is real the invisible force
+
+may or may not be there either way if
+
+you play well you're going to be
+
+fine and what you means is complex might
+
+not mean your human body right yeah and
+
+that that's that's something that's
+
+interested me is like in that
+
+exploration I think
+
+the the life beyond death
+
+um you know exploration
+
+has depended on that invisible force for
+
+me for a long time because I think okay
+
+if this is really just a game of you
+
+know play and we somehow got confused
+
+with all this accounting stuff then of
+
+course then there's gonna be you know
+
+we're gonna wake up from this dream
+
+after a while and be like that was fun
+
+what's next
+
+um I think there's something really
+
+important to consider here this is a toy
+
+I'm not saying that this is how it
+
+is but what if your actual life and the
+
+game that you're actually playing which
+
+isn't entirely a game but we'll call it
+
+that what if your life and the game that
+
+you're playing and the thing that I
+
+called your
+
+spirit
+
+that you're using you're learning to use
+
+to navigate your experience
+
+with as you transform from an accountant
+
+to an improviser
+
+what if what is inspiring that
+
+improvisation is actually your
+
+death what if your soul is the knowledge
+
+you have Beyond this
+
+lifetime attempting to influence your
+
+behavior within this
+
+lifetime what if afterlife isn't the
+
+actually important thing what if the
+
+after death is actually your Soul's
+
+intelligence leaking back what if your
+
+life is your death leaking back into
+
+Incarnation yeah I mean I don't even
+
+know what the [ __ ] to do with that yes
+
+you do you're brilliant you're gonna
+
+have no problem with this you're gonna
+
+chew on this and you're gonna be like oh
+
+my God that's [ __ ]
+
+insane because I think honestly at this
+
+late phase in my life I've lived a long
+
+time for a human
+
+I'm starting to see that we've got this
+
+whole thing with death backwards it's
+
+inside
+
+out our life is actually inspired by our
+
+death in the future remember I told you
+
+that I was concerned that there was an
+
+event in the future that was sending
+
+shock waves back in
+
+time what if that's what our soul
+
+is what if our soul is the position
+
+Above All Our Lives and it leaks
+
+backwards in time into actual specific
+
+existences certainly makes you wonder
+
+why things are the way they are no it's
+
+it it it actually explains why the
+
+things are the thing are the way they
+
+are it really does because everybody's
+
+got it backwards right they're playing
+
+the game from the wrong end of the
+
+board right they think I need to
+
+preserve this this separate self and if
+
+I mess up it's going to be I'm going to
+
+get judged and it'll be
+
+destroyed when in actually in actuality
+
+they have to think from death into life
+
+not from life into after
+
+death your spirit is powerful I know
+
+you and I'm not I mean I'm stupid about
+
+simple things like every human is
+
+but I can
+
+see the power of your
+
+spirit that [ __ ] is incredible man it's
+
+like really momentous I'm not trying to
+
+build you up or blow smoke up your ass
+
+I'm trying to encourage you to trust
+
+it right you can I trust you I trust
+
+your heart and what I mean by your heart
+
+is this position above a single life and
+
+you keep wondering if there's this force
+
+that will protect you you man that's the
+
+force You're Made Of You're Made Of This
+
+thing that's above your specific life
+
+and frankly there's nothing really to
+
+lose but your integrity in the moment so
+
+when you go with your integrity in the
+
+moment it's winwin it's it's bubble
+
+making you're making bubbles and you've
+
+seen this demonstrated to you it's been
+
+demonstrated in conversations you and I
+
+have had directly for sure particularly
+
+the hilarious metaphor of the Sun Cloud
+
+sunglasses yeah right like wait what the
+
+thing that blocks the light what what
+
+are you are you kidding me oh God
+
+beautiful
+
+fantastic yeah I I have a real deep my
+
+goal is deep presence within every
+
+moment and the understanding that I
+
+don't need to plan the
+
+future I mean both things work it
+
+doesn't have to be one way or the other
+
+bubbles bubble making involves lots of
+
+different kinds of bubbles but but yeah
+
+the to the degree that you don't have to
+
+plan the future you're rich and to the
+
+degree you have to plan it you're
+
+poorer and our our society and our
+
+civilization is based on the inversion
+
+of that principle no it's all about the
+
+future man you got to make the money put
+
+it in the bank yeah let's go
+
+it's very true I feel
+
+that no I trust your soul and you know
+
+you're wondering if there's some force
+
+and what I'm trying to say is something
+
+really weird the you're misusing the
+
+thing you're wondering with because the
+
+thing you're wondering with is the force
+
+you don't believe
+
+in the force that hasn't proved his
+
+existence to you
+
+yet it's the very thing that you wonder
+
+about the existence of that with that is
+
+the thing you're wondering
+
+about dude you keep talking you're gonna
+
+enlighten
+
+me I'm learning with you man you're
+
+you're shining the light of your
+
+curiosity and and your existential
+
+questions on my mind and then my mind
+
+just starts reflecting [ __ ] like some
+
+kind of water yeah it's it's a mutual
+
+thing I our conversations are one of my
+
+favorite games that we play oh it's a
+
+beautiful game every time man I'm all
+
+in um part two of having to leave you 10
+
+minutes is my appointment I'm going to
+
+go ahead and give myself a little buffer
+
+room so I'm not just walking into this
+
+office with like existential thoughts
+
+dripping yeah yeah it's all good cool um
+
+it's been a pleasure as always uh I
+
+will maintain our friendship now that I
+
+have a little more stability you know
+
+it's apprciate recently um do I have
+
+your permission to post the recordings
+
+for sure yeah excellent I want other
+
+people to benefit yeah it's my
+
+altruistic
+
+Drive yeah to uh to many
+
+more to your spirit that invisible force
+
+that you've been wondering
+
+about good stuff I love you man you're
+
+amazing dude just keep being beautiful
+
+you got this you too you too I'll see
+
+you in the next one all right peace
+
+peace
+
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@@ -0,0 +1,6866 @@
+okay so we are now
+
+recording oh cool just so everybody
+
+knows normally there's a announcement in
+
+the
+
+channel um I'll just deal with any
+
+background noise on my
+
+end but
+
+yeah cool
+
+so I'm expecting oh there's
+
+Beast hey Beast
+
+hi yeah he's got his mic muted for the
+
+moment but um yeah Beast I uh I sent you
+
+a
+
+um sort of a meme about wolves and them
+
+having invented the game of
+
+fetch uh they were playing it when we
+
+discovered them apparently rather than
+
+having to wait for humans with hands to
+
+throw sticks for them
+
+uh they were doing that on their
+
+own and then
+
+recently
+
+uh Beast oh yeah yeah yeah that's
+
+awesome um he said they play it with
+
+each other in
+
+Ravens uh I've been in touch with a
+
+feral human in the outback
+
+of um Quebec who I'm hoping to interview
+
+maybe sometime in the coming week Zano o
+
+and zanco is a
+
+feral human he
+
+lives out in the nothing in a cabin he
+
+built surrounded by animals that hunt
+
+humans and stuff and I thought you might
+
+find it interesting that when we were
+
+talking a couple nights ago I've known
+
+him for about 10 years we've had a few
+
+long conversations he's uh he's very
+
+unusual he's Croatian older Croatian
+
+guy and we were talking other T night
+
+and he said um I I don't have much time
+
+I have
+
+appointment like oh yeah you know yes
+
+have
+
+appointment okay so you're out in the
+
+middle of of nothing in the snow in
+
+Quebec and you have appointment it's
+
+like yes I have wolves there are four
+
+wolves in front about half mile away
+
+there are seven to the left there are
+
+two to the right there are four behind
+
+me about four miles I have to go meet
+
+them we talk like okay so you talking to
+
+the wolves like yes we talk I'm like
+
+well so you know I asked him
+
+um well I'd be really you know I have a
+
+request he said what is it I said you
+
+know I want you to ask the Wolves if
+
+they will come to me in my dreaming and
+
+teach me wolf things and he said oh for
+
+for that I must find white wolf Shaman
+
+wolf I only see him you know once twice
+
+a year but I will remember it ask him
+
+okay so I'm like what do you talk about
+
+and he's like well we don't talk and I
+
+and I said but you know you said that
+
+that you're going to go talk with them
+
+he said I did not mean Talk I meant we
+
+dance around and howl and go crazy
+
+together in the snow
+
+so yeah apparently zanos is out there
+
+with some you know
+
+undomesticated wild
+
+canines and I'm really hoping to get an
+
+interview with him because he's a wildly
+
+unusual human the be
+
+I I said
+
+um so you know you you have friends out
+
+there he said I don't have friends I
+
+prefer enmity and
+
+isolation no no no that's not what he
+
+said he said he said I prefer animosity
+
+and
+
+isolation was very important
+
+difference did you ask him
+
+oh I know why I
+
+mean it's for the same reason we're
+
+having this meeting right
+
+now um yeah he he's well aware that what
+
+the humans do in cities is has very
+
+little to do with being alive or being
+
+human or being intelligent or anything
+
+so he just he doesn't want any part of
+
+that at all the only part of
+
+that City life is Thoroughly alienating
+
+and isolating I find yeah yeah so he
+
+wants no part of that he's married I
+
+asked him you know zono when was the
+
+last time you kiss Woman except not in
+
+that accent he said oh yeah last week
+
+like oh yeah he's like yeah like who
+
+he's like my wife see her on Facebook my
+
+page she come she come out here like oh
+
+great that's awesome I'm glad it's like
+
+why you ask about this
+
+and I said well you know I have to
+
+answer him very carefully or he'll he'll
+
+mess with
+
+me I said
+
+well a woman's Love Is
+
+Like Oxygen or the stars in the night
+
+sky or the Cry of a wild animal you
+
+cannot
+
+identify and he said oh I understand
+
+your point
+
+what do you think his reason for messing
+
+with uh well your words I think
+
+uh weirdly and somehow accidentally
+
+certainly not
+
+intentionally um I managed to acquire
+
+his respect and
+
+admiration uh based on my posts on
+
+Facebook which of
+
+course as any of you who see those posts
+
+know have almost nothing to do
+
+with anything personal about me and have
+
+a lot to do
+
+with Insight or cognition
+
+language and he used to teach math at
+
+the University maybe in Calgary but I'm
+
+not sure and uh so he was a math teacher
+
+and he feels uh essentially assaulted by
+
+he like I I did not
+
+choose I did not choose mathematics
+
+mathematics was forced upon
+
+me theories come to me in the night and
+
+harass me they beat me up in my
+
+mind um but yeah I think I acquired his
+
+respect
+
+so when we talk it's a bit it it it
+
+resembles something more like a Zen
+
+Mondo between us you know a couple of
+
+Zen teachers or something right where
+
+we're kind of you know he he
+
+said you know he asked me questions like
+
+tell me something you don't
+
+know and I
+
+said I don't think there is anything
+
+that I actually know and he says that is
+
+something you know tell me something you
+
+don't
+
+know what did you say to him I
+
+said well no what I'm trying to say is
+
+that I don't really trust knowledge much
+
+at all I understand how it works but I I
+
+don't I don't think it's
+
+authoritative right
+
+um and so the last time we talked a
+
+couple days ago he said
+
+um what is the
+
+truth and I said I don't I don't
+
+remember exactly what I said but it was
+
+something
+
+like the truth is like a ray of light
+
+from the Divine that is both
+
+urgently pursued and simultaneously
+
+[Music]
+
+unknowable and then he said then I said
+
+um swano was like yes like what is a
+
+lie and he got a funny look on his face
+
+and he said no one ever asked me this
+
+question before no one no one asked me
+
+this I'm going to have to meditate on
+
+that I mean he could have just said
+
+human civilization it's a big
+
+lie we were never civilized we're not
+
+civilized now and never civilized
+
+before well I mean that would be an
+
+interesting thing for us to talk about
+
+too what is what is it letter I mean I
+
+can say what I would think about it but
+
+what what do you think about
+
+it
+
+um you know I don't want to be uh it's
+
+the right
+
+word I don't want to be a
+
+kerogen but I think that if we're about
+
+if we intend to have a deep topic excuse
+
+me a deep uh conversation about
+
+something we should probably we should
+
+we should resist the urge to believe
+
+that we know what words
+
+mean because they certainly don't mean
+
+their senses in the dictionary um so
+
+what we have to do if we're going to be
+
+intelligent together is to playfully and
+
+perhaps
+
+cunningly um
+
+explore why we're asking something and
+
+what we would What in in this
+
+conversation we intend to mean by
+
+certain terms does that make
+
+sense sure it's like I was talking with
+
+Lee last night
+
+and we were talking we we actually
+
+talked about 19 other things we I'm not
+
+sure we actually got to this topic
+
+but
+
+um I I
+
+introduced the idea of the relationship
+
+of intellect to
+
+dreaming and I I sort of knew I sort of
+
+knew what I meant by intellect but I
+
+quickly realized that in order for this
+
+conversation to become interesting or
+
+meaningful
+
+um we'd have to Define our terms much
+
+more carefully especially that like what
+
+is meant by by
+
+intellect did you set a want
+
+something as a
+
+definition
+
+um no because we ended up pursuing
+
+uh wild other topics such
+
+as snake cheese Medusa even the snake in
+
+Genesis women milking
+
+snakes Jesus is actually cheese bait we
+
+just mispronounced his name because it
+
+was actually originally
+
+cheeses um the human addiction to
+
+cheese uh how people really get
+
+depressed if they if if it is if it
+
+becomes clear the cheese will not be
+
+available
+
+um you know you go to a party there's no
+
+cheese you're out of there I mean uh
+
+yeah we had some crazy I took some notes
+
+and I'm going to try and write a comedy
+
+routine about the snake milk thing
+
+because it has a lot to do with what
+
+Almond Hillman's talking about um with
+
+the Medusa and Meda and the origins of
+
+medicine and stuff and I think those
+
+ladies they were milk and snakes I don't
+
+mean to be pornographic about it but
+
+they were straight up milk in
+
+snakes uh and snakes have
+
+milk well even if we suppose that snakes
+
+don't have milk so first of all most a
+
+lot of people don't know this but
+
+rattlesnakes give give birth to live
+
+young um
+
+yeah but
+
+uh even if we decide that you can't
+
+actually get milk from snake
+
+tits um there are two other important
+
+possibilities and the first one is the
+
+milk of their anciently evolved
+
+intelligence and
+
+memory and the second one which is
+
+straight up physically
+
+real is that humans milk them for the
+
+Venom to produce
+
+antidotes right and that Venom is often
+
+milky yeah they call that milk milk
+
+exactly so you know metaphorically or
+
+actually right right yeah okay but yeah
+
+I guy one I think it was Stanley
+
+superhumans really neat show from some
+
+years back who injected himself with
+
+snake venom uh one kind was actually
+
+black mamba Venom which is supposed to
+
+render you like neurologically paralyzed
+
+and dead within half an hour or
+
+something and he was able to basically
+
+not have his brain be negatively
+
+affected by it so he would like sit in
+
+front of the
+
+camera with a nurse beside them and uh
+
+inject himself with black mama Venom
+
+quite a lot and
+
+uh other than a lesion at the sight of
+
+injection he seems perfectly fine which
+
+I found
+
+interesting um it's well known that
+
+ancient people and there are a few
+
+people walking around today I think
+
+there's one guy who's fairly famous it
+
+could be the guy you're talking about
+
+might be a different guy as
+
+well um but what alen Hilman regularly
+
+talks about is women who were both
+
+immune to the Venoms of various lethal
+
+snakes um via the tiated introduction of
+
+Venoms into their bloodstream over time
+
+and could also convey immunity to these
+
+Venoms uh which is at least in one place
+
+perhaps with Paul in the Bible
+
+discussed as one of the gifts of the
+
+Spirit of Christ or or the Divine
+
+beings um to be immune to snake
+
+venom do you think and just because I
+
+don't know how this just information I
+
+had this was explained I mean I mean I
+
+know
+
+homeopathically this is just me guessing
+
+you know homeopathically you can have
+
+not one element of
+
+the The Cure which is actually would if
+
+you did have any elements of it be the
+
+cause of
+
+similar experiences or problems that the
+
+body has but with these home
+
+Homeopathy you can very often get rid of
+
+the very problem that the actual
+
+elements in the Cure which is say
+
+titrated or something to the point that
+
+there's not one molecule at it left and
+
+I'm kind of wondering if
+
+um I know energetic healing exists and I
+
+wonder if somebody who had exposed
+
+themselves to the snake Venoms and I
+
+guess at the time that was something
+
+people were being bitten regularly by
+
+snakes I guess it wouldn't been such a
+
+big deal um you know can be in a similar
+
+way that somebody Who develops an
+
+immunity no longer has any of it in them
+
+but has the experience of having it in
+
+them and whether if you're a Healer you
+
+can energetically
+
+convey that Essence so to speak of the
+
+experience to another person I mean did
+
+they talk about
+
+how you know was there
+
+anything how that was conve um yes so uh
+
+you know vaccines began in a similar
+
+fashion um they were aware of the
+
+excuse me some humans in ancient Greece
+
+were aware of this uh technology there's
+
+also stories of um cow herd women in
+
+India perhaps 3,000 years
+
+ago
+
+um taking the pus from smallpox lesions
+
+on
+
+cows um deluding it placing it on
+
+bandages scratching people's skin
+
+surfaces and wrapping them in the
+
+bandages to
+
+convey immunity to small poox or at
+
+least a reduced response
+
+[Music]
+
+um as far as Homeopathy
+
+goes you know we have a huge problem
+
+there
+
+because actual studies of it have not
+
+revealed any
+
+effect um so if you know if we're paying
+
+attention to the science realizing that
+
+science isn't always the right LS to
+
+look
+
+with there's a problem there
+
+um also there's another problem which is
+
+that if Homeopathy were real what would
+
+have to cause the medicine to become
+
+medicinal is not merely the exposure to
+
+the substance because if if if the
+
+homeopathic
+
+um theorem was
+
+true you know everything we eat
+
+heat would have
+
+homeopathic levels of billions of
+
+substances in it right which would cause
+
+which would leave us with two problems
+
+the first one
+
+being in that kind of a situation how is
+
+it that the little pills actually have
+
+any effect at all when we're living in a
+
+home in a manifold of swarming homeopath
+
+homeopathic
+
+energetic uh signatures
+
+right see the problem well well I
+
+actually don't actually see that
+
+necessarily as a problem because the way
+
+I look at it is that um we are prepared
+
+in other words we've grown up with and
+
+we have existed with eating things that
+
+are of value to us and that we use the
+
+necessary parts of we're not you know
+
+assuming processed foods or anything but
+
+you know but the Whole Foods we we do
+
+that the substances in that are used in
+
+Homeopathy are are are not those things
+
+they are actually poisons that we
+
+avoid and that our experience I mean if
+
+we did run into some of those things and
+
+eat them we could die potentially or I
+
+mean that the it's a simil it's supposed
+
+to be
+
+similar whatever would cause something
+
+similar to the disease or the problem
+
+that you're treating with Homeopathy is
+
+in itself if it were ingested
+
+potentially poisonous and the reason and
+
+that according to Homeopathy and I'm not
+
+well studied on it I have had positive
+
+results but um but the according to
+
+Homeopathy those are the substances that
+
+are basically
+
+potentized and actually supposed to be
+
+the most potent to Homeopathy by the
+
+degree to which they are kind of
+
+shaken into the sugar mixture or
+
+whatever um to the point that there is
+
+literally not one molecule left of the
+
+actual substance so it seems to be that
+
+it's the memory in essence the the
+
+signature of the substance that's
+
+remains in Homeopathy and Homeopathy
+
+from my understanding of how it works is
+
+the remedies or the the cures or what it
+
+you know what it offers
+
+is the thing that if you did ingest it
+
+as a poison or toxin would cause the
+
+very symptoms that you're trying to
+
+alleviate so it's re it's it's a
+
+different kind of a thing it's the it's
+
+the signature so to speak of of it and
+
+if you I don't know you know if you pay
+
+much attention to you know to the whole
+
+Emoto stuff or what you think about that
+
+with the water
+
+raining you know the quality of even a
+
+thought um or a word or a whatever and
+
+its structure you know it it basically
+
+supposes that there is a sensitivity to
+
+things that can encode that kind of
+
+thing so that's my understanding of what
+
+Homeopathy is and this is just me it's
+
+my little commercial for ocela Cox and
+
+I'm I have not had a flu in over 30
+
+years and I had home Pard me aunist tell
+
+me about Cox many years ago and um if I
+
+take that at the first sign of anything
+
+I don't get it so I've never had a flu
+
+shot I never had a flu not in 30 years
+
+and before that I would have them maybe
+
+once twice you know once a year once
+
+every couple years so to me it seems to
+
+work because every time I do take it it
+
+it literally gets rid of it
+
+so okay well that was a that was an
+
+interesting
+
+presentation um so first of all the pr
+
+one of the or the originary principles
+
+of medicine is precisely the principle
+
+you describe here where an extremely
+
+small titration of a substance that
+
+would be harmful produces the opposite
+
+result and therefore can act as an
+
+antidote to that
+
+substance um however it should be clear
+
+that the one thing the oxytocin or
+
+whatever that stuff's called does not
+
+contain is flu
+
+viruses so I'm not sure I'm it's
+
+symptoms it's what they Homeopathy is
+
+got different yeah yeah let me let me
+
+continue so um the concept in Homeopathy
+
+is that you place one or more
+
+substances I mean there's a vast lexicon
+
+of symptoms and diseases and then there
+
+are along with those symptoms and
+
+diseases are the substances that are
+
+used homeopathically to treat them and
+
+then um those substances are placed in a
+
+solution
+
+extremely M minute
+
+um uh titrations or dilutions of those
+
+substances extremely minute are placed
+
+in like a 5 gallon you know container of
+
+water and then I don't know some one
+
+droplet of that it's placed in a second
+
+5 gallon container then one and mixed
+
+and then one droplet of that and so
+
+forth and so
+
+on now they make the pills out of the
+
+resulting stuff now I think um you
+
+either ignored or you just didn't care
+
+about what I said which was that if
+
+Homeopathy if Homeopathy were
+
+real then the unimaginable cloud of
+
+extremely minute amounts of every
+
+substance on Earth that we are swimming
+
+in would constantly be affecting us and
+
+even if it weren't how could it possibly
+
+be
+
+true that the minor minute amounts of
+
+basic of zero amount actually what what
+
+you have is energetic memory of some
+
+substance in a pill right so there's
+
+nothing in that pill um energetic me
+
+memory of some substance well we are
+
+swimming in ging I didn't get it yeah we
+
+are swimming in G trillions of
+
+situations where the energetic memory of
+
+substances is everywhere in every glass
+
+of water we drink in every piece of food
+
+we eat in the air we breathe in
+
+everything that we're exposed to all day
+
+long so that um if Homeopathy were true
+
+all of those things should affect us
+
+right and and problematically more
+
+problematically how possibly could the
+
+non-existent amount of energetic memory
+
+of a substance in the homeopathic pill
+
+overcome the noise
+
+floor of all that other
+
+stuff right there's this huge vast noise
+
+floor that would be Monument I mean it's
+
+like Thunder versus not even a whisper
+
+no I understand what you're saying okay
+
+I don't know the answer to that of
+
+course but I would imagine that one way
+
+possibly and I don't know that this is
+
+is the answer to that but one way would
+
+be that um any of those other things
+
+like if you take a homeopathic remedy
+
+for some you know let's say you took
+
+other ones that other than the spec the
+
+specific one that you needed for your
+
+spe that would caused your specific
+
+symptoms if you took any of the other
+
+ones they wouldn't harm you but they
+
+also wouldn't do anything for you on the
+
+other hand I don't know that in that M
+
+morass of everything that's swimming
+
+around you is necessarily the one
+
+element or the several elements as
+
+combined that would be necessary that's
+
+the only thing I could think that would
+
+explain oh actually I can easily think
+
+of another thing that we exp okay um so
+
+the humans uh when they think about
+
+things they do so in a very stupid array
+
+of
+
+ways and by the way hi Risa nice to see
+
+you um yeah they do so in a very stupid
+
+way array of ways and one of the stupid
+
+things they do and I'm not trying to be
+
+mean by the use of this word but the
+
+stupidity itself is actually quite cruel
+
+to us um is
+
+they they think as
+
+if uh the power is in the
+
+substance the substance has a mean
+
+mechanical Power to cause effects in the
+
+humans right that's how they think
+
+that's how uh allopathic medicine
+
+works um we we depend on a mechanical
+
+effect in the body of a
+
+substance but it the weird problem with
+
+that is the idea that humans are
+
+separate from
+
+nature um is someone filing their nails
+
+sounds like it it
+
+does
+
+um yeah
+
+so the all of our all of our modern
+
+knowledge ways possibly including
+
+Homeopathy suppose that humans are
+
+separate from nature and they're using
+
+little machines from nature to come into
+
+the human thing and and change things
+
+around
+
+um
+
+so that can't be true let's just be
+
+absolutely Ely clear there's no
+
+separation between humans and nature
+
+there's more
+
+separation between um a droplet of the
+
+ocean flying up in the air and the and
+
+the ocean itself there's more separation
+
+there than there is between humans and
+
+nature humans are nature whatever nature
+
+may be right but the humans don't think
+
+that way and they like to think
+
+mechanically like we're a separate thing
+
+over here and then there's all that
+
+other stuff called
+
+nature including Homeopathy right any
+
+other thing so so the easy solution I
+
+can see is that the the
+
+conspiracy
+
+between the patient the homeopath the
+
+homeopathic
+
+practitioner the water the
+
+substance the history of the homeopathic
+
+idea all those things combine to produce
+
+an actual effect that I could understand
+
+right which you don't have that
+
+conspiracy well you're saying it's
+
+basically a placebo effect that's what
+
+you're saying I think yeah I'm not
+
+actually quite saying that I'm saying
+
+something
+
+weirder um we if we if we allow that a
+
+placebo is equivalent to the things I
+
+said previously the that the effect is
+
+caused by the the kind of thing the
+
+conspiracy and all that I said
+
+previously then yeah I'm saying the
+
+placebo effect but I mean um you know
+
+there's this peculiar document on medium
+
+it's called Notes From
+
+Beyond and it describes the history of a
+
+set of messages I've been receiving now
+
+for some months after having received a
+
+decryption
+
+key um and in those messages and there's
+
+a vast number of
+
+them um there's a video on the placebo
+
+effect that's quite staggering
+
+uh it's probably not exactly the same as
+
+like it's not so shocking as like
+
+someone had their leg cut off and then
+
+they they met a Healer and and the
+
+Healer said three words to them and they
+
+grew a new
+
+leg right but it's pretty close um there
+
+are instances of sudden inexplicable
+
+healing in humans that are really
+
+profound and excusing them as the quote
+
+placebo effect is a dumb idea because
+
+what do we know about harm and healing
+
+right well we know maybe you know
+
+0.007% of what there is to know yet many
+
+humans and human cultures and stuff go
+
+around acting as if they're
+
+authoritative they they we know what's
+
+going on we we do this all the
+
+time um well well let me ask you
+
+something I mean first of all I just to
+
+clarify by Placebo effect I certainly
+
+think that you were saying just to see
+
+this is what you
+
+meet you know in terms of what the way
+
+you were looking at it um I mean I think
+
+of it in terms of the fact that the Mind
+
+Is Ours you know it's part of everything
+
+and it has
+
+extreme
+
+Powers um you know and also the kind of
+
+thing where if you're you know we can
+
+the way the mind works you can also
+
+create disease within yourself if you
+
+feel certain ways um you know about
+
+things you can and there's all kinds of
+
+correlation between emotion and feeling
+
+and you know and and the kinds of things
+
+that your body that you do within your
+
+own body so I mean I think there's a lot
+
+of those elements to it um you know just
+
+to to say that so that's what I think
+
+about in terms ofo it encompasses all of
+
+that but I I do I have a question I mean
+
+you say we're not apart from nature
+
+which I agree with all completely % if
+
+we are nature um but we eat you know
+
+things which are technically quote
+
+unquote outside of ourselves to eat and
+
+what we eat very well determines our
+
+state of health so I don't think I mean
+
+and there's certainly been herbology
+
+this is I'm going to say this really
+
+quick because I don't want to monopolize
+
+anything but you know herbology has been
+
+around for really long time and by
+
+observation that it has discovered
+
+certain substances and medicine is kind
+
+of taken off of that and its various
+
+roots and my my particular physician who
+
+I agree with is that you know that in
+
+the background modern medicine is
+
+basically poisons that have some
+
+positive benefits and I kind of agree
+
+that a lot of that is the case I mean
+
+when they create a modern medicine from
+
+an herbal remedy they or a plant they
+
+only take certain certain elements not
+
+the whole plant and very often it's
+
+actually the whole plant that has the
+
+medicinal quotequote value that causes
+
+healing so I just wanted to say that in
+
+in general
+
+so so a few things come to mind the
+
+first is that herbalism was not
+
+discovered by observation in most cases
+
+uh the herbalistic knowledge that comes
+
+down to us moderns was discovered in
+
+trance in Visions in conversations
+
+between spirits of plants and animals
+
+and humans um I've heard this noise
+
+before and I'm not trying to be uh I'm
+
+not trying to be critical of of you
+
+Nancy but I I I heard a similar noise
+
+from a a a guy who went down to South
+
+America and founded a company called
+
+Shaman Pharmaceuticals because he had
+
+they had discovered that the shaman down
+
+there in in one of the indigenous
+
+cultures um that uses a
+
+psychedelic
+
+snort a psych delc um
+
+snuff one of one of those cultures uh
+
+had discovered remedies for thousands of
+
+diseases and so this guy went down there
+
+and their goal was to kind of rescue
+
+that Culture by um
+
+opportunistically capitalizing on the
+
+knowledge of these shamans and uh they
+
+you know he talked about similarity and
+
+how for example something that looks
+
+like a heart could be good for your
+
+heart and things like this but I asked
+
+him um very pointedly in in the lecture
+
+this is about 23 24 years ago now
+
+happened at Golden Gate Park's little
+
+lecture hall didn't anyway um I can
+
+probably find the guy's name uh it
+
+wasn't the Y mamy he was looking
+
+at let me see here but I asked him um so
+
+how and I I knew I knew how they um
+
+I knew the answer to my question before
+
+I asked
+
+it
+
+so I asked him how did they
+
+discover
+
+which
+
+plants or concoctions were good for
+
+which
+
+diseases and he got a funny look on his
+
+face he looked around the room he said
+
+trial and
+
+error and I was like are you [ __ ]
+
+kidding me right now
+
+there's like well four billion plants
+
+down there they live in the Amazon Rain
+
+for no that makes sense that makes sense
+
+as a matter of fact they had this thing
+
+on I don't know if you saw it that I
+
+think it was um an a monkey in AP or
+
+whatever it was uh self-medicating with
+
+some kind of a plant did you see that
+
+recently I heard about it yeah um and it
+
+was well you could look it up if you
+
+want but it's you know it was really
+
+clear that they knew mhm and knowing
+
+no right quotequote the problem yeah is
+
+is really the way we know anything
+
+matter of fact direct
+
+um I don't want to I just thought of
+
+this the other day that I don't want to
+
+let what I what I think I know I know
+
+interfere with my knowing because it's
+
+the knowing that is the direct and I
+
+agree with that I mean I think that that
+
+is how
+
+things you know are known but once we
+
+divide it into you know take so say but
+
+those plants you know however we know
+
+this and and we do know it and I agree
+
+with you I mean that makes far more
+
+sense than the idea of trial and error
+
+you know you know however we know it
+
+that
+
+knowledge you
+
+know you know is effective knowledge and
+
+it is something quote unquote from
+
+outside of us that goes inside of us but
+
+so does food you know um there's a bunch
+
+of presumptions there that I don't trust
+
+I hear what you're saying and you're
+
+using ordinary language and I
+
+acknowledge that and I'm not trying to
+
+you know again I'm not trying to be a
+
+kagin but I want to distinguish between
+
+uh knowledge sub asterisk and knowledge
+
+sub a and knowledge subb so knowledge
+
+subb is is what common humans think and
+
+say and that kind of [ __ ] knowledge sub
+
+a is what skillful humans are capable of
+
+thinking and imagining and doing and
+
+knowledge sub asterisk that's the [ __ ]
+
+you're talking about that the that the
+
+monkeyy using right that's not regular
+
+knowledge so this is what I mean by
+
+defining our terms carefully right and
+
+and ordinarily you know we need at least
+
+a three- layer description to have any
+
+chance of being intelligent together
+
+notice how rarely humans um
+
+you know how rarely they they play this
+
+way right they almost never do what I
+
+just did with the word knowledge I mean
+
+have you even heard one other person do
+
+it anytime in the past 10 years one
+
+time they just think that a single word
+
+means a thing just means one thing dang
+
+it you know hand me a beer Johnny let's
+
+go fix some truck parts I think I think
+
+Plato and the cave address it you know
+
+yeah okay great so someone did it you
+
+know um 18800 years ago one time amazing
+
+thank
+
+God but yeah so you see what I'm saying
+
+like if we're going to talk
+
+intelligently we need to use language
+
+much more carefully than what we're used
+
+to hearing reading seeing or relating
+
+with and it's easy to do we just have to
+
+have the agreement that we're going to
+
+do that together and then we have to be
+
+careful about understanding the
+
+different meanings of
+
+terms um so I want to go back to I want
+
+to Circle back to a couple of topics
+
+here um I think it's important to
+
+highlight the conspiracy that
+
+occurs uh potentially at least between
+
+the patient the homeopath the water the
+
+substance and the tradition let's call
+
+that conspiracy let's call that
+
+conspiracy Homeopathy not the medicine
+
+let's not call The Medicine Homeopathy
+
+right the medicine is one of the um
+
+elements in that
+
+conspiracy uh and I think that
+
+conspiracy is very important and you
+
+know there's a
+
+positive um there's a positive gloss on
+
+the the word
+
+conspiracy right and I think we're
+
+seeing it here now um it's also entirely
+
+clear to
+
+me that many humans have straight up
+
+died from believing that that
+
+homeopathic medicine could save
+
+them straight up died right those people
+
+died they're like this homeopathic
+
+medicine it's gonna you know it's going
+
+to be amazing it'll it'll cure me I can
+
+avoid them bad allpaths and surgery and
+
+all those B about all
+
+medicine no it's true but I'm just
+
+trying to say that um yeah if Homeopathy
+
+has ever
+
+cured a very serious metabolic or
+
+physical dis disease I've never heard of
+
+that I'd be very surprised to hear that
+
+however
+
+um when a disease is is
+
+remediated I would love to see the proof
+
+that it was remediated by a medicine or
+
+a
+
+treatment because when something goic
+
+harm which is basically harm caused by
+
+Doctors Hospitals and the IAL system
+
+itself in many estimates is the third or
+
+even second leading cause of death in
+
+North
+
+America I think you're right you're
+
+absolutely right
+
+so yeah the problem is um it's really
+
+difficult to
+
+determine
+
+uh I'm just looking this up
+
+[Music]
+
+so I've certainly experienced some
+
+iatrogenic harm I think most of us
+
+who've been exposed to doctors have
+
+whether it was serious or not is is more
+
+you know more
+
+complex
+
+um don't
+
+see it is considered a Le leading cause
+
+of death but it does it's hard to find
+
+find its rank
+
+um the problem with okay so we have a
+
+bunch of problems here but the main one
+
+that concerns me is the problem with
+
+what I call one thing mind right got one
+
+thing we think one thing way one way we
+
+think one one way about one thing and so
+
+we think for example that if a if a
+
+human gets better it's because of the
+
+mechanical effect of the specific
+
+treatments they received from the
+
+alpath in alpath treatments
+
+and that can't be true there's no chance
+
+of that being true and what I mean by
+
+true isn't perfectly authoritatively
+
+correct what I mean by true
+
+is has the likelihood of of being
+
+relatively
+
+truthful right there's no
+
+chance because there are there are
+
+literally infinite factors involved in
+
+every injury or disease and to every
+
+moment of healing infinite every time in
+
+fact there's nothing you can point to in
+
+your mind or in language that doesn't
+
+have infinite qualities what we do is we
+
+collapse a manifold of Infinities down
+
+to some derivatives this is called
+
+excerption in Consciousness then we use
+
+words to refer to the excerption we do
+
+not acknowledge having
+
+done and pretend that we've just
+
+described How the Universe Works you
+
+just wrote about that one yeah I did
+
+actually after reading um some uh a book
+
+examining Owen Barfield saving the
+
+appearances um but yeah this is a huge
+
+problem and the funny thing is I'm doing
+
+it right now in order to say the things
+
+I'm saying I'm taking a variety of
+
+manifolds of
+
+Infinities I'm making specific
+
+purposeful exertions and I'm presenting
+
+to you the results as if they might be
+
+authoritative right so in fact I'm going
+
+to argue there isn't too much else you
+
+can do if you're making you know if
+
+you're making
+
+speech um there's other things you can
+
+do like kissing or taking a poop um or
+
+you know pulling weeds or something that
+
+aren't exactly the same but what you'll
+
+discover if you even look at those
+
+things is that they are also collapsing
+
+of manifolds that result in derivative
+
+excerption how would you differentiate
+
+that from just generally the word for um
+
+uh General
+
+ization wait how would I differentiate
+
+It generally from the word
+
+generalization that's a great question I
+
+really like that one I mean how would
+
+you how would you or how would you
+
+excerpt it right do an excerption from
+
+the from the I mean every I mean I I
+
+know what you're saying is true I mean
+
+but that's the
+
+whole I don't know that's getting your
+
+with
+
+feedback you getting
+
+feedback yeah are you no anyone else
+
+hearing
+
+that yeah I heard some feedback I think
+
+Nancy's voice was echoing back through
+
+Darren's oh okay
+
+yeah hopefully this will
+
+help so I mean I think it really comes
+
+back it managed
+
+I think we just lost Nancy
+
+[Music]
+
+there it says I'm a
+
+moderator really that's great how I I
+
+love it anybody here
+
+yeah oh she's gone
+
+again I'm going to I'm holding on to my
+
+thoughts because I do have some that I
+
+think are relevant but want to wait for
+
+Nancy to come
+
+back welcome back thank
+
+you yeah I was just
+
+um I'm hearing feedback yourself you
+
+still hearing it yeah I am I'm hearing f
+
+voice well I won't say
+
+much okay let's do an experiment Let's
+
+do an experiment I'm going to mute my
+
+mic and then you talk and see if you
+
+hear the
+
+feedback that makes sense um not hearing
+
+the feedback yet so maybe that's what it
+
+was but at any rate just quickly to say
+
+um you know I think it again we come
+
+back down to the same thing in essence
+
+it's all one we're just trying to name
+
+things when we break it up for our
+
+usefulness and for fun and appearance
+
+you know to deal with physical real ity
+
+and
+
+um this is the kind of thing that we
+
+have to be very careful of remembering
+
+that and readed dash membering what we
+
+really are and who we really are that we
+
+literally are all one and that this
+
+really is all one and that this what
+
+you're doing what you're saying what
+
+we're saying is basically to be very
+
+careful about how you say things so you
+
+don't forget I think that that's
+
+something
+
+all right um I'm going to respond now
+
+and let me know if you start hearing
+
+feedback again Nancy I'm gonna try to
+
+mute my mic when you're
+
+speaking um because I'm recording I've
+
+muted mine I've muted mine in the
+
+meantime okay right all right so first
+
+of
+
+all um language itself is a problem but
+
+like technology we're not going to get
+
+rid of it so we need to use it more
+
+intelligently together um yes what I was
+
+saying about manifolds is a
+
+generalization but what unlike most
+
+generalizations it's a hyper
+
+generalization because it
+
+generalizes the fundamental thing that
+
+must be done and surfaces it in our
+
+Consciousness right it generalizes and
+
+surfaces in Consciousness a fundamental
+
+activity that we're not aware we are
+
+doing which is the collapsing of
+
+manifolds of Infinities in in cognition
+
+to produce
+
+Communications uh Act
+
+and writing and so forth and theories
+
+and models and all these things right so
+
+all of
+
+it everything so um it's very useful to
+
+be aware of this because what determines
+
+the outcome of
+
+excerption like um you know the
+
+relationship between a and b for example
+
+uh if a is a leaf and B is a tree what
+
+determines that relationship and its
+
+characteristics is not
+
+logic it's the purpose for which we
+
+started making those
+
+exertions it's the purpose that we had
+
+prior to emitting
+
+speech and if we become aware of this
+
+and pay close attention to it together
+
+we are capable of Acts of intelligence
+
+that are far beyond what ordinary people
+
+ever get anywhere
+
+near um so it's not just that it's a
+
+generalization it's not trivial it's not
+
+a a trivial General
+
+generalization it's a Monumental
+
+generalization it's a hyper
+
+generalization because really you can't
+
+even generalize if you're not doing the
+
+thing I said about the collapsing of the
+
+manifolds and
+
+exertions so the collapsing of the
+
+manifolds and excerption is not actually
+
+a generalization it's a metag
+
+generalization or something like that
+
+now I want to go back briefly before I
+
+lose the
+
+topic and talk about this weird stuff
+
+with misaru imoto and one of the
+
+mistakes imoto made I think is to
+
+suppose that his research told us what
+
+was going on quote with water
+
+unquote
+
+um and once again we have this problem
+
+where the humans are thinking of
+
+themselves as separate I'm not having
+
+any effect on this right um the water
+
+has this property by itself of this kind
+
+of
+
+memory so that if I speak to it of love
+
+it forms a certain kind of Ice
+
+Crystal and if I speak to it of hate it
+
+forms a different kind of Ice Crystal
+
+and so forth
+
+now all that's very interesting there
+
+were problems
+
+reproducing emoto's
+
+work but it's not surprising if we
+
+understand the outcome of his research
+
+as having been a
+
+conspiracy between
+
+Emoto emoto's felt sense and ideas about
+
+water and uh water itself and the
+
+specific circumstances under which his
+
+research produced
+
+results hey per
+
+sense nice to nice to see you
+
+Mick nice to
+
+meet um Nancy's here naoko's here you
+
+know
+
+Beast uh Rick Rises here really
+
+interested in the effects that
+
+Consciousness can and does have on what
+
+we call matter and energy
+
+like for example with the so-called clo
+
+and noo
+
+effects you can have a person
+
+who basically eats enormous amounts of
+
+junk food versus someone who eats
+
+extremely healthy but in some
+
+cases uh the former's Consciousness and
+
+the latter's Consciousness will project
+
+onto the body and relate to the body in
+
+a way where the person eating the
+
+terrible diet will be measurably
+
+healthier over long amounts of time
+
+compared to the one eating the super
+
+healthy diet Etc or
+
+like when it comes to
+
+Medicine you can have remarkably similar
+
+circumstances
+
+um where two people will receive this
+
+like the same treatment for basically
+
+the same
+
+disease one will recover enormously and
+
+the other will uh deteriorate or die
+
+and Consciousness itself and the way it
+
+projects energy onto the body and
+
+through the body seems enormously
+
+impactful
+
+on not just Health
+
+but like how would I put it many aspects
+
+of the way the body functions
+
+absolutely and it's just curious to me
+
+how two seemingly similar or same
+
+circumstances can lead to drastically
+
+different
+
+outcomes All Things Considered that we
+
+can consider anyways um
+
+um what occurs to me is that
+
+um that it really has to I mean the
+
+factors if you want to look at it as
+
+factors and I know you don't look at
+
+things mechanically in that in that way
+
+I do of course I do no I was no I was I
+
+was actually I wasn't actually saying to
+
+you buto but also but also but also to
+
+you I guess you know basically um things
+
+aren't all quot unquote mechanical or if
+
+they are mechanical the mechanics are
+
+affected by so many things you know that
+
+me mechanics are just the maybe you want
+
+to call it the structural element of
+
+something which basically created the
+
+structural element or is uh you know a
+
+structural element that we you know
+
+either not aware of
+
+I mean there's so many factors in
+
+everything infinite almost in anything
+
+that happens including diseases I mean
+
+we built up a certain way that it's
+
+pretty assured that if you're going to
+
+eat you know FR food 247 it's going to
+
+take a toll you know I mean your body
+
+wasn't meant for that but of course
+
+there's so many elements that are
+
+involved that you can't possibly address
+
+any but the very grossest of the aspects
+
+in any one way I think it seems like
+
+Consciousness is so certain aspects and
+
+projections of Consciousness are so
+
+closely correlated to the body and
+
+actually in some ways the environment as
+
+well
+
+that I have to wonder whether pans
+
+psychism which is the idea that
+
+everything is made of Consciousness has
+
+some
+
+Merit
+
+because this leads me to a whole other
+
+rabbit hole but
+
+um
+
+basically I don't know enough but
+
+there are there's basically materialism
+
+which is the idea
+
+that everything is made of matter and
+
+energy which is separate accidental
+
+random and non-conscious which I do not
+
+personally subscribe
+
+to
+
+uh and then you have things like
+
+idealism or philosophical idealism
+
+where live the universe done
+
+uh where the universe is contained
+
+within
+
+Consciousness um and then psychism which
+
+posits that actually everything is made
+
+out of certain expression or layers of
+
+Consciousness and then you have things
+
+like substance dualism which is that you
+
+have two ontological Primitives one is
+
+consciousness or transpersonal
+
+Consciousness and then the other would
+
+be matter and energy and they somehow
+
+inter and
+
+intertwine and I don't really
+
+know which one is true if
+
+any but the
+
+sheer uh interrelatedness and
+
+intertwining of Consciousness and at
+
+least uh the biological body is very
+
+compelling to
+
+me so go ahead
+
+are were you are in this
+
+yes yes I
+
+am is is the recording back on because
+
+it just said live live stream
+
+off uh I was not able to get the
+
+recording happening here so I am
+
+recording it locally on my
+
+machine all
+
+okay
+
+nework I don't know how to pronounce
+
+that
+
+everything you say is true and natur
+
+true um and I come at it from a St
+
+different way like going back to what we
+
+said about uh would go eating McDonald's
+
+being healthy would go eating all the
+
+healthy food being
+
+not um is
+
+that
+
+um there's
+
+a
+
+Consciousness say if you call it eot
+
+which was the old name right a e t h e
+
+r um you can imagine that that's a kind
+
+of a uh shaping Factor think something
+
+is called
+
+archetypes um where you know the seed
+
+for an oak an oak tree grows into an oak
+
+it doesn't grow into a flower so you can
+
+because you're a conscious being with um
+
+the ability to shape your surroundings
+
+you can over your hands
+
+you know can where you walk in the grass
+
+every day you end up with a pathway
+
+compared to the grass around which will
+
+keep going so that ends up being like
+
+um the pathway ends up being like a
+
+funnel which you which you fall into
+
+right and so consciously you can create
+
+these funnels which you will be healthy
+
+no matter what Tye of [ __ ] you put into
+
+yourself
+
+is in the materialistic thinking um you
+
+are what you eat
+
+basically
+
+people things like that they Le [ __ ] so
+
+they be comous oh sorry for using the
+
+bad
+
+language the so the
+
+like archetypes we not exist because the
+
+seeds of the different plants grow into
+
+different types of things they don't
+
+just grow into
+
+um like you know the the Brazil not
+
+doesn't go into nor tree so that's kind
+
+of a Consciousness let's call it the
+
+mapping of the eer but also humans have
+
+the ability to to we one of a few
+
+creatures on Earth to be able to
+
+manipulate her surroundings that
+
+includes
+
+manipulating the Consciousness I'm just
+
+throwing up ideas out here manipulating
+
+the conscious ether which means that we
+
+can decide to be healthy you know we can
+
+we
+
+can our life force we use our life forc
+
+to be healthy beings even if we have
+
+were forced to eat a lot of Crum
+
+right yeah Consciousness seems to
+
+have quite a lot of potential and
+
+abilities that are not
+
+ordinarily uh assigned to it by like in
+
+general
+
+um not just
+
+deliberately using the tobo and noo
+
+effect or things like that or
+
+say projecting onto the body in a
+
+certain way to enable it to become
+
+healthy in [ __ ] situations but like
+
+yeah material things or effect on
+
+material things like your body like the
+
+there's times of
+
+um um where you trades you Warrior like
+
+trades and the mainly become very
+
+physically strong and their muscles will
+
+become you know you will see high
+
+definition even if they're not doing a
+
+lot of physical work right you will you
+
+will notice a high definition in them
+
+right but then there will be other times
+
+where the society becomes you know
+
+there's less risk so the
+
+whatever whether it's Consciousness or
+
+hormonal effects means that the people
+
+will become softer looking right like
+
+the change
+
+now well let me just ask I mean I'm of
+
+the opinion that Consciousness is a
+
+priority to matter in other words it
+
+isn't that matter develops into
+
+Consciousness it's that Consciousness
+
+develops matter and and I you know and
+
+you probably I don't know have you read
+
+Rupert sheldrake at all in terms of his
+
+like morphogenic feels and that kind of
+
+speaks to I think what you're talking
+
+about that there is kind of a field a
+
+Consciousness field and that
+
+Consciousness field could be funnels for
+
+a particular group of people under
+
+certain circumstances either kind of
+
+what you were talking about too I don't
+
+know if that what you think about that
+
+or if that makes sense what I'm saying
+
+but I I I just think
+
+um that makes sense from what you're
+
+saying and I believe you know and and
+
+that Consciousness is actually a so to
+
+quickly interject I think that one of
+
+the problems is that cont ious is so
+
+multi-layered and multifaceted thought
+
+as a regular human born with amnesia so
+
+kind of disconnected from Infinity in
+
+many ways that we generally are not
+
+aware of uh are not surfacy aware of in
+
+our waking State uh like
+
+99.999% of Consciousness so we get this
+
+very like extremely narrow kind of
+
+myopic
+
+experience of Consciousness that only
+
+contains
+
+usually the five senses and thoughts and
+
+emotions and Body Sensations and things
+
+like that but um in my experience there
+
+are at least there are more layers to
+
+Consciousness than just the ordinary
+
+surface waking State and the dreaming
+
+State and it just keeps going deeper and
+
+deeper
+
+and uh accessing is kind of difficult
+
+for an
+
+amnesic like it can take years if not
+
+Decades of practice
+
+to become thoroughly and specifically
+
+aware of the details of those other
+
+layers of
+
+Consciousness
+
+and yeah it's a good way of putting us
+
+but I wouldn't um
+
+I wouldn't
+
+denote a prior a priority to any one
+
+over the other let's let's look at it
+
+like the Y ying and yang right and
+
+people forget between the Y and yang you
+
+have the chi which is the
+
+potentiality so you can imagine the the
+
+Yang being or material being the Ying
+
+being energy and then the CH being
+
+Consciousness like oh all is one and one
+
+is all like that Holy Trinity you
+
+know I did you ever hear about um Monroe
+
+Institute and was his name robt Monroe
+
+yeah absolutely and um
+
+he's you know
+
+reportedly whether it's true or not been
+
+communicating with astral be right but
+
+they they were living in cons pure
+
+Consciousness but they were um envious
+
+of us that we had physical bodies and we
+
+we didn't realize how lucky we wanted to
+
+be and if you look at all the religions
+
+that of the world at the moment most the
+
+majority of the major
+
+ones the the main outcome you want to
+
+reach is pure consciousness of being in
+
+heaven enlighted Heaven you know so
+
+there
+
+is I I think it should be looked as you
+
+know that was Consciousness to come
+
+before matter you know you can argue
+
+this and that but fact of the matter is
+
+there is matter there is energy and we
+
+know there's a supernatural you know
+
+between different um experiences
+
+different people have had
+
+so that's like the yingyang energy yeah
+
+I don't
+
+know which is true if any whether it's
+
+just all some form of Consciousness CU
+
+they're different like there's personal
+
+consciousness subpersonal
+
+transpersonal things that are not even
+
+physically
+
+dependent
+
+um and substance dualism would posit
+
+that you have both entrical Primitives
+
+matter energy and
+
+Consciousness
+
+and
+
+really I just don't know my present
+
+state which is our priority if any
+
+I'd like to um
+
+sorry um so I want to introduce a few
+
+things one to Circle back to the water
+
+thing briefly very briefly I posted a
+
+link in the chat to V Austin's Facebook
+
+page vaa is a water memory researcher
+
+she had a near-death experience
+
+and has developed a method of flash
+
+freezing water after exposing it to some
+
+physical
+
+object and the results she obtains to
+
+call them shocking would be the wildest
+
+of
+
+understatements um it makes what emodo
+
+was doing look like uh I don't know
+
+playing with silly putty or something so
+
+for example uh there was a photograph by
+
+someone she trained yesterday
+
+who um simply exposed a petri dish of
+
+water to her uh
+
+fingertip and then flash by holding her
+
+fingertip above the petri dish okay and
+
+then flash froze the water and it's
+
+blatant it it might as well have been a
+
+photograph in ice crystals you see the
+
+exact structure of the fingertip in the
+
+frozen ice crystals of the water after
+
+the fingertip being held above it for a
+
+few seconds
+
+and you know a billion other well many
+
+thousands of other examples of this so I
+
+just want to point that out to everybody
+
+because V's work is really trippy I'm
+
+going to try to get an interview with
+
+her I don't know if I'm going to manage
+
+it yet but I'm working on it
+
+um so as far as that goes I find that
+
+quite fascinating I don't think vet is
+
+making things up I don't think she's
+
+phony quote unquote by the way that word
+
+comes from the sound of the different
+
+between the sound of an actual human
+
+voice and the sound of a human voice
+
+heard over the one of the initial
+
+telephones that's where we got that word
+
+phony
+
+from um so I'll drop that topic there
+
+and return to where we are now which is
+
+the relationship between what we've been
+
+calling
+
+Consciousness and um matter and and
+
+beings and so
+
+forth uh I think it might be wise for us
+
+to select perhaps to select a different
+
+word than Consciousness we might even
+
+have to make up a word and what I want
+
+to indicate by that
+
+word is the more than merely living
+
+intelligences the origin of the
+
+possibility of minds and
+
+awareness because Consciousness as a
+
+word can can be easily misunderstood as
+
+a uh sort of mechanical level thing like
+
+you have what something like aware Ness
+
+at the top or maybe you know a word that
+
+we need to make up which is what I'm
+
+arguing um we have something at the top
+
+then you have awareness and you have
+
+Consciousness then you have
+
+cognition which is thinking but there's
+
+something truly amazing that I noticed
+
+while Mick was speaking and thank you so
+
+much Mick for showing up today and
+
+hanging out with us really appreciate
+
+you
+
+man um which is that when when he
+
+started to say the thing about physical
+
+stuff and your muscles and things and
+
+them responding to your intention or
+
+your desire or your
+
+imagination there's something actually
+
+much weirder going on that's blatantly
+
+obvious right I am reaching out at this
+
+moment to pick up a glass of water and
+
+I'm drinking
+
+it okay so that that action tells us
+
+directly that awareness the human body
+
+is is like a platform through which
+
+awareness can organize physical matter I
+
+just did
+
+it in the simplest physical action
+
+between my hands and some objects I am
+
+reorganizing matter with
+
+awareness so if anybody thinks if anyone
+
+objects and says oh that's some
+
+metaphysical blah blah blah the fact
+
+that they can even move their vocal
+
+cords to object is an example of exactly
+
+what I'm talking
+
+about so I would like us to have some
+
+other word for the stuff some other word
+
+than Consciousness because that can be
+
+misunderstood and what I want to mean by
+
+this word we could you know maybe
+
+um maybe certain philosophers called it
+
+uh stuff like things in themselves or
+
+that which is but that's not descriptive
+
+enough because what I mean is a more
+
+than merely living superposition over
+
+the
+
+possibilities of awareness Consciousness
+
+and intelligence
+
+cognition I mean a primordial feature of
+
+all that exists and much that doesn't
+
+exist physically which is
+
+informing in it it goes into things and
+
+from within informs them and we might we
+
+may come up with a word or I might
+
+suggest one in a minute but before I do
+
+that um there's also a secondary problem
+
+which is the humans think I'm acting
+
+from inside me to outside things and
+
+what I'd like to suggest is that the
+
+idea of outsideness is delusional there
+
+is no
+
+outsideness
+
+outsideness is an
+
+artifact of the perspective from which
+
+we are participating and and thinking
+
+about these matters there is no
+
+outsideness if and you know earlier uh
+
+Nancy was saying things are everything
+
+is one yes everything is one but
+
+everything is also distinct and 19 other
+
+things that it is impossible to
+
+formulate in
+
+English right so you know everything is
+
+one and there are
+
+distinguished uh quote unquote separate
+
+beings and and and and 19 other things
+
+that we haven't figured out how to
+
+surface in Consciousness or describe to
+
+ourselves yet
+
+so for the moment we can call this thing
+
+from which awareness and Consciousness
+
+and intelligence and cognition
+
+deres uh or localizes we can call that
+
+thing X but I want us to make up a word
+
+for it um and any suggestions would be
+
+welcome I realized Consciousness can be
+
+a very vague term and can mean many
+
+different things to many different
+
+people but I kind of like the term as
+
+[Music]
+
+well that's quite a
+
+term what was that oh incoming CL
+
+apparently okay but what was the term
+
+that you said you liked it got obscured
+
+by that whatever that was uh I I like
+
+the term Consciousness as well um it's
+
+just that it can be and is
+
+misinterpreted or
+
+tends to mean different things to
+
+different people but well let me just
+
+throw this into the fry I mean
+
+consciousness of what and what is
+
+conscious in other words I mean I think
+
+that a lot of religions and throughout
+
+times I mean I of God Ra is it is it
+
+Consciousness being conscious of
+
+itself that that causes the split it
+
+causes all the many other things I think
+
+I don't know if anybody here does
+
+doesn't feel this way but I know what
+
+you what you were
+
+mentioning you know what what
+
+organ you know George was mentioning is
+
+basically that um that it's both and it
+
+is both it's it's but it's it's it's the
+
+one and it's everything else that's
+
+forming
+
+information preformation but but I think
+
+the whole Consciousness things and I'm
+
+not sure about you know how to describe
+
+it either you know has a lot to do with
+
+I mean you can use the word awareness
+
+but it's that's not really enough I mean
+
+the Consciousness when I think when I
+
+said that Consciousness was a priority
+
+to matter what I was saying was that it
+
+is that which
+
+is
+
+all perhaps aware and where that
+
+awareness goes maybe goes into the many
+
+many things that and many people and
+
+many everything that exists I don't what
+
+I mean
+
+is uh like subjectivity direct
+
+subjective experience what it is like to
+
+be so and so
+
+[Music]
+
+or how I put
+
+it that Which experiences
+
+maybe so that which is aware that it's
+
+aware on some level is that not what
+
+that Which experiences
+
+is or is it or is it the direct
+
+experience without this subjective
+
+without the
+
+self-awareness I think it can exist in
+
+many states uh with or without a self
+
+even with or without awareness
+
+because there can be existence and
+
+things happening and a total lack of
+
+awareness of it and then later on in a
+
+different state of consciousness you
+
+realize that all of that was going on
+
+but there was
+
+no uh personal awareness of it at the
+
+time
+
+so that makes sense that's your personal
+
+Consciousness that you're talking about
+
+but I guess what I'm talking about is I
+
+think there's like we're talking about I
+
+think everybody is you know that there
+
+is there is consciousness you you were
+
+talking about earlier how it was you
+
+know habit personal in different levels
+
+of consciousness same you know but but I
+
+think that the
+
+Consciousness that is transpersonal or
+
+you know there are other there is your
+
+own I mean I think we I think we're
+
+personally I think we're all gone period
+
+and that we're all we are all this
+
+larger Consciousness kind of dumbed down
+
+if you want to put it that way
+
+forgetting if you want to put it that
+
+way that that's what we are or whatever
+
+and we're having this experience clearly
+
+or we would be on this fun call together
+
+but I mean there is something else which
+
+exists I think when I say Consciousness
+
+is a priority I'm talking about a
+
+different but the Consciousness that we
+
+are all part of that's basically what my
+
+not not person not
+
+just definitely there's something like a
+
+collective um a collective Consciousness
+
+that is not ultimately separated at root
+
+layers although it contains multiplicity
+
+so as Darren said it's both one and the
+
+many at the same time
+
+but
+
+uh yeah I used to
+
+believe many
+
+[Music]
+
+things and now I'm not so sure about
+
+many of
+
+them
+
+yeah just to one of the things there if
+
+we were God we would be able to describe
+
+what is so I don't think we are the
+
+whole like it's like maybe like a leaf
+
+on the tree that leaf cling to be the
+
+tree know is a bit super FR it has he
+
+fall off in the oran just like we die in
+
+wither no that's that's that's
+
+nature is it possible that the tree is
+
+claiming to be the
+
+leaf
+
+no I I think I've never seen a tree make
+
+a
+
+claim yes but I you know
+
+this thing to say that we are
+
+God you know we're par of it but we're
+
+not we're not the greater Consciousness
+
+you know to me we're more like the leaf
+
+on the tree we're just we're part of it
+
+do is a great
+
+all I think I think you're right but if
+
+you look at the whole fractal pattern
+
+that exists that ex you know the mandle
+
+BR and everything that is you know as
+
+above so below how does that work you
+
+know how is it that above sub I mean
+
+it's the it's not to say that I am a God
+
+you know or The God that controls
+
+everything but I think that I don't know
+
+what God is if God is not part of
+
+everything and and we are not part of
+
+God
+
+so yeah okay there's there's a huge
+
+problem here with parts and holes
+
+[Music]
+
+um and you know whether or not we are
+
+God is a similar question and I can show
+
+you directly how shockingly similar this
+
+question is to whether or not my hand is
+
+me because certainly my hand isn't all
+
+of me and yet without my hand I'm not
+
+me it's very complicated this is a
+
+problem in thought and in language and
+
+in concept and the problem is what is
+
+the difference between a and b and as I
+
+said yesterday the difference will not
+
+be found it will not be discovered or
+
+articulated in a simple fashion because
+
+what determines the difference the
+
+difference is not predetermined as we
+
+imagine in language the difference is
+
+produced by our relationship with
+
+categories and identities in thought
+
+conception and language the difference
+
+is not in the things the difference is
+
+in our mind and difference is produced
+
+by the purpose for which we make
+
+exertions producing thereby seemingly
+
+discret entities which we then refer to
+
+and compare and evaluate and
+
+analyze yeah um I would just take a step
+
+back for what you said with that
+
+handling the body or handing
+
+you um if you lost your hand you would
+
+still live on but if the hand lost you
+
+then the hand is
+
+finished so there like there are
+
+differences between the pars and the
+
+whole yes I mean that's a very
+
+insightful uh figure that you produced
+
+there Mick however the figure is not as
+
+authoritative as it
+
+appears it's crafty your figure is
+
+Crafty and and I acknowledge and
+
+appreciate that
+
+craftiness and yet um what it really
+
+comes down to is what we mean by hand
+
+and Daren it's not
+
+that so we we've often heard people say
+
+that like if I lose one of my
+
+limbs I'm still
+
+me and like you said Mick which I've
+
+never heard anyone say if my limb loses
+
+me it's done for which is really
+
+interesting Twist on
+
+that um but it's very complicated it's
+
+not simply
+
+true uh because for
+
+example when a feature of a
+
+Unity quote goes away unquote
+
+right
+
+um and by the way it's mono m n o mono
+
+eano
+
+uh which I think means hand in hand when
+
+a feature of a Unity goes away from one
+
+thing let's say um let's say a not real
+
+person a person named aigl mendum uh
+
+loses their
+
+hand um and we'll pretend that they are
+
+like a real person uh even though
+
+they're imaginary I'm doing this figure
+
+on purpose um when when that person
+
+loses their hand it seems to have become
+
+separated from their body that which
+
+disappears in one place appears again
+
+somewhere else it seems to me there's
+
+there's like this weird thing which
+
+isn't exactly one of the laws of
+
+thermodynamics but it's something like
+
+um elements of a
+
+form cannot actually fully go away they
+
+may disappear from one place or time but
+
+they are nonetheless present in others
+
+or even that which departs from one
+
+observed context appears in some other
+
+context observed or not
+
+thoughts that's archetype that that Nick
+
+was talking about earlier I me I think I
+
+mean yes of course the hand is a
+
+morphology and and you know a chair is a
+
+chair as a chair even if it has a
+
+different form but I think you know I
+
+don't know that that's actually I don't
+
+know I don't I guess maybe I don't know
+
+how you mean that if you don't mean if
+
+you don't think of the way I'm
+
+mentioning
+
+it it is kind of interesting uh to do a
+
+thought experiment that Go's something
+
+like what makes me me
+
+or what what does the intactness of self
+
+consist of like if am I the body in
+
+entirety am I the brain am I an eye if
+
+you take like in My DNA so the
+
+Consciousness witnessing it
+
+if
+
+you come at it
+
+from an analytical perspective and take
+
+it all apart you can't really
+
+distinguish any one such part of self
+
+and say this specifically is what I am
+
+or who I
+
+am it seems to all
+
+be like a
+
+synergistic interconnected ho
+
+of or at least on the cellular level I
+
+think s beings
+
+um
+
+and yeah when a part of us like a hand
+
+or an eye or a limb is suddenly severed
+
+or taken
+
+away
+
+the the person that being is still there
+
+but in an altered
+
+form well I mean
+
+then well I mean what I know in terms of
+
+like for example there's a quote from
+
+the Bible which goes that their left if
+
+your left arm offends the cut it off
+
+well what that means is but there are
+
+lesser parts of you and there are non-
+
+lesser parts and you know you can still
+
+it's like the Monty Python thing where
+
+they in the whatever that was one where
+
+the guy keeps getting his arms and legs
+
+cut off and he says come on I'll fight
+
+you I'll fight you well it's the will I
+
+would say of that person that still
+
+exists I mean look at um you know
+
+anybody but without their physical parts
+
+or you know they're still really just as
+
+much them it's it's their Consciousness
+
+if you will or their and their will and
+
+their connection to their own the larger
+
+awareness hopefully um you know that
+
+determines who and what you are and how
+
+you um remember who you are um but I
+
+mean I just think that of course we're
+
+in a physiological form that's
+
+functional as are all the other animals
+
+for for existence on the planet but I I
+
+I don't know that I personally would
+
+spend too much time wondering if a hand
+
+was missing it you're still you to me
+
+it's F obviously you are although I
+
+would not necessarily
+
+consider the parts of myself lesser or
+
+greater
+
+like it's a perspecti
+
+thing
+
+okay but uh I want to come back to what
+
+Darren just said about if one thing
+
+disappears in one context it reappears
+
+in another uh what do you mean by that
+
+exactly
+
+I guess he's absent or
+
+muted I'm sorry what was the question I
+
+was away from the keyboard for a
+
+moment uh no worries uh I wanted to ask
+
+you about what you just said
+
+regarding if one thing disappears in one
+
+context it reappears in another right so
+
+consider uh the fact of drinking water
+
+um I just took a sip from the glass of
+
+water on my desk this is all a construct
+
+in language what is actually going on
+
+has nothing to do with what I just said
+
+nonetheless the water disappears from
+
+the glass and appears somewhere
+
+unobserved inside me that's what I'm
+
+talking about right fundamental s we we
+
+don't have to take wild metaphysical
+
+leaps into the
+
+stratosphere to understand the
+
+principles that
+
+underly um our experience and our being
+
+net right so like can is it possible to
+
+let me just ask you this question is
+
+there anything I can do in the to the
+
+water in the in the glass that causes it
+
+to actually go
+
+away if it were to go away go
+
+ahead oh I was saying hypothetically
+
+you could invent a technology
+
+that I'm getting a lot of
+
+feedback but B
+
+hold hold on hold on
+
+intru sorry um naoko hypothetically you
+
+could invent a technology that what I
+
+got kicked
+
+out uh that completely neutralizes all
+
+of the energy that the water consists of
+
+and so would effectively remove its form
+
+from the
+
+universe uh yeah I don't think so I mean
+
+you could say in a thought experiment
+
+but I'm asking for something I can do to
+
+the water to literally make it go gone
+
+like not be and there isn't anything
+
+like that I don't think it's possible to
+
+make the water be gone and if it were
+
+gone where would it be gone to go ahead
+
+Mick yeah I think actually what what
+
+you're what you said previously was very
+
+interesting um point about like with the
+
+water there memory in water they see
+
+true Homeopathy you put on the the link
+
+to the woman earlier VI the atin right
+
+so we say when you're talk about your
+
+body just spe to Consciousness say when
+
+you you with a certain vibrational
+
+frequency as you as you live now right
+
+um and you attain a certain vibrational
+
+frequency in your your life a life force
+
+and then when you die does that your and
+
+you decompose does that life force go
+
+with the different molecules of water
+
+that were in your body into the ground
+
+and it can be
+
+reborn and back you know so it's it's
+
+it's kept in in Consciousness that's the
+
+term we're using uh
+
+basically you know it lasts into the
+
+future generations and is born
+
+again I don't know honestly
+
+uh there seems to be at least some
+
+evidence for reincarnation actually
+
+happening although I don't know I I I
+
+didn't want to talk about reincarnation
+
+I was talking about just in the
+
+as what we were talking about earlier
+
+about Consciousness matter energy which
+
+was a
+
+priority like
+
+that your
+
+conscious fre life force which you have
+
+during
+
+life is that disseminated to the
+
+molecules that break down when you die
+
+and it's rain in them so it's not just
+
+cure matter of water the water is
+
+retaining your Consciousness and can
+
+flow down a river or it can be within
+
+another being like a fish you see what I
+
+mean yeah I don't know well what about
+
+now I mean if you first of all this
+
+matter energy thing is kind of a false
+
+thing because we all know scientifically
+
+even that that matter is just
+
+concentrated form of energy so it's not
+
+like there's it really isn't like
+
+they're dualistic it's just we think of
+
+matter as things you could see physical
+
+things but really I mean we know just
+
+from you know Einstein and the bomb you
+
+know that that that matter contains
+
+tremendous amount of concentrated energy
+
+in fact that's what it is but apart from
+
+that I mean I think you know that you
+
+know that what we are I mean if you love
+
+somebody right and you send that love to
+
+them and you feel that love with them
+
+that is
+
+energetic right and that exists and and
+
+personally I think we're we're energy
+
+riding around in meat suits you know and
+
+Consciousness riding around in Meats
+
+suits and we formed into this physical
+
+reality that's come from whatever but
+
+the bottom line is I mean I would say of
+
+course you know the the energy of you
+
+still exists I don't think it could be
+
+destroyed and I don't think anything can
+
+be destroyed in that in that sense I I
+
+mean I just think I don't personally
+
+take that at all
+
+so although I am very averse to the idea
+
+of calling the body a meat suit as it
+
+kind of disbe it like disen beinging it
+
+uh no it's brilliant it's brilliant I
+
+don't mean to denigrate the body at all
+
+just want to say I say it deliberately
+
+that way just to distinguish to just so
+
+that that shock actually even exists out
+
+there for people to think is this you
+
+know is this body all I am of course so
+
+I mean the reason I say it is kind of
+
+for shocked of course I'm not
+
+denigrating it in any way or thinking
+
+it's separate in any way from our
+
+purpose or our
+
+function who we are incarnate at all
+
+just that's
+
+why I think the
+
+body gets
+
+misperceived
+
+uh and misinterpreted like all the time
+
+by regular Ames at humans like me
+
+um it seems to be a collective of
+
+sentient beings trillions of them or
+
+quadrillions if you can't the
+
+bacteria and from one perspective
+
+anyways
+
+and
+
+somehow perceiving and relating to the
+
+body as if it were just a separate
+
+non-conscious piece of meat
+
+causes the body to reflect that and so
+
+it kind of it has a degrading effect I
+
+find not that that's what you were
+
+saying but just in terms of the
+
+terminology
+
+itself well the reason I also use me too
+
+is Incarnate is a word and what
+
+incarnate means is in meat right that's
+
+the Incarnate incarnate is that and of
+
+course the body is has all the
+
+Brilliance of all the beings that exist
+
+in it everything it's just because when
+
+people think and I don't accuse you this
+
+or believe you believe this or anybody
+
+this call believes this but you know if
+
+people get lost in the physicality of
+
+things to to the point where it they
+
+don't realiz it's kind of almost a
+
+wakeup call to say no it's not it's not
+
+just even the organizing principle of
+
+this amazing morphic physicality that
+
+exists in humans and every other animal
+
+every other being every other piece of
+
+every other being it's not just that
+
+it's what's in that it's what's it's
+
+what's it's the reason for it being in
+
+the first place so that's the reason why
+
+I do it it's like I say it's a little
+
+bit of shock value but it's actually
+
+within the the idea of of the
+
+terminology
+
+incarnate I think we've gotten a little
+
+bit distracted here so back to mix's uh
+
+question about whether the molecules in
+
+the substances presuming that molecules
+
+are you know actually there which is not
+
+entirely
+
+clear um in our bodies when we die go to
+
+other
+
+places
+
+um they certainly do if you know in in
+
+as much as we have a model of of what
+
+happen s to molecules and their
+
+Transformations um what that means is
+
+hard to understand and that
+
+model actually is really helpful if
+
+we're looking at a single molecule or
+
+we're trying to build a molecule say a
+
+protein or something like this um but it
+
+gets pretty weird if we start including
+
+many molecules now it becomes really
+
+difficult to tell what's going on over
+
+time and weirdly um one of of the
+
+bizarre things about science is
+
+that it seems to be many branches of it
+
+are very concerned with
+
+prediction and this comes down to
+
+something that's fundamentally human
+
+which is a problem that we all face
+
+we're facing it right now even as we
+
+participate in this meeting and the
+
+problem orbits um three pivots that I
+
+will call vigilance ambiguity and
+
+prediction and ambiguity vigilance and
+
+prediction are tightly linked right
+
+because when there's ambiguity our
+
+vigilance will tend to rise because our
+
+threat um Sentinel will wake up and the
+
+reason the threat Sentinel is waking up
+
+is because it's trying to figure out
+
+what's going to happen in the future a
+
+lot of science um
+
+is oriented toward this task of making
+
+predictions and thus determining whether
+
+a model of a physical system or a
+
+relational system or a biological system
+
+or even a psychological system in case
+
+of psychology which is not really a true
+
+science uh we're trying to understand
+
+what the you know the relationship
+
+between the model and the thing is
+
+that's being modeled and also we're
+
+trying to understand uh how
+
+past um
+
+past situations produce present
+
+situations and lead to Future situations
+
+so we're trying to be able to make
+
+predictions um certainly the molecules
+
+in the body uh are quote unquote
+
+recycled by by quote unquote nature none
+
+of us having any [ __ ] idea what
+
+nature is uh we know what we mean I
+
+think we know in a trivial or clumsy way
+
+what we mean when we use the word but um
+
+we mean all that is uh however I would
+
+usually distinguish between N Things
+
+that I see as
+
+natural um which are things that were
+
+not produced U by human beings having
+
+become catastrophically addicted to the
+
+engineering and production of machine
+
+Mach to me machines don't look like part
+
+of nature I can understand someone who
+
+says no everything that is is nature so
+
+machines are included I get it I get the
+
+argument but I think it's important to
+
+make a distinction between something
+
+that offloads entropy into living
+
+systems and something that's relatively
+
+neg Tropic which the biosphere is um in
+
+any
+
+case so I realize I've you know made a
+
+very bird Walky movement here yes the
+
+molecules are recycled do they carry the
+
+energy of our soul with them who knows
+
+it seems if if just thinking casually
+
+about it it seems that those molecules
+
+May in a way not entirely dissimilar to
+
+how Homeopathy likes to frame things
+
+have some kind of energetic fingerprint
+
+of us but I don't think
+
+necessarily that I mean I I tend to
+
+suspect and think as if there's
+
+something like a soul but what I think
+
+it is is really weird it's not a single
+
+thing it's like a constellation of
+
+relationships among beings over time
+
+with a central feature that I think of
+
+as
+
+Darren right so instead of just thinking
+
+Darren has a soul I don't think that way
+
+at all I think it's a constellation
+
+effect it's much like a solar system
+
+having a star in it right there's this
+
+constellation of beings and
+
+relationships and moments and places and
+
+memories and Futures that is uh Moment
+
+by moment flowing into and being
+
+localized as Darren and it doesn't mean
+
+I can't have a past life or a future
+
+life it just means that it won't be it's
+
+not like a single Diamond inside Darren
+
+that goes outside Darren when I die and
+
+then goes Boop into another body later
+
+and gets reincarnated I think that's
+
+wildly unlikely I'd also like to suggest
+
+that all past lives are Uniquely Yours
+
+and so are all future lives
+
+um in in the sense that all of them are
+
+you but their relationship to the you in
+
+this moment that is presently localizing
+
+as say Mick or naoko or beast or Risa
+
+Nancy um the the what's localizing is a
+
+unique near neighbor array of of
+
+relationships between all those beings
+
+and so every past life is fine every
+
+future life is mine but every future and
+
+past life is also yours and they are
+
+differently mine and yours something
+
+like this seems to be a bit more a
+
+slightly more intelligent way to
+
+Encompass the question we have a huge
+
+problem in English with the idea of
+
+singular
+
+possession and like I have my soul my
+
+soul has a body called you know that's
+
+this one and I my soul is inside this
+
+body okay no because none of those
+
+things are um none of them are
+
+explicitly separate all of them are
+
+processes something is flowing into me
+
+right now allowing me to be alive and
+
+speak and we presume that it's my
+
+heartbeat that keeps me alive but it's
+
+not it's something flowing into me and I
+
+think it's that thing that X that is
+
+primordial to awareness Consciousness
+
+intelligence cognition sensing relation
+
+experience it's that X that is flowing
+
+into me and it's uniquely flowing into
+
+me and it's uniquely flowing into you
+
+but it is uniquely flowing into us from
+
+something that we can think of as
+
+singular which is often uh referred to
+
+as God or the one Sun that is the inner
+
+light of all events and situations
+
+thought um I passion you to I I I didn't
+
+mean that um you know our soul is going
+
+into the molecular water and being
+
+carnated if that piece of prop water
+
+goes into to someone else in the future
+
+um it was more like and I'm going the
+
+turn information energy
+
+so
+
+apparently our existence is to learn for
+
+the universe to experience and to learn
+
+right so we're obviously building up new
+
+experiences for
+
+ourselves for the relations that you
+
+mentioned there down and the universal
+
+Consciousness right so or God whatever
+
+you want to call it
+
+so that information
+
+energy is accumulated over time and
+
+according to some theories the universe
+
+is fractal so that can be held within me
+
+as M or a molecule water within
+
+me um so I I wouldn't it's just part of
+
+the the learning and experience through
+
+life that that also will be a relation
+
+to the you know the development of the
+
+soul in the individual but that that
+
+information energy is
+
+you know I I'm just positing here that
+
+it could be retained in each molecular
+
+water that goes to you
+
+and you know it forms part of the the
+
+the the local that can inform other
+
+things around you right
+
+um like like for example if I take a p
+
+outside under a tree right and then
+
+there's myum around that tree and tree
+
+puts up some mushrooms right you know it
+
+could be that the mushrooms if I eat
+
+them later after a certain type of one
+
+say like amonita or another one that
+
+everyone knows about that there could be
+
+a bit of a feedback from the information
+
+energy that they saw coming from me when
+
+through the tree roots through the melum
+
+back up to the mushroom and they're
+
+telling me something back
+
+yes see why
+
+not so Mick what was your original
+
+question actually concerning itself with
+
+about the dying into molecules and them
+
+going into other things what what was
+
+your what was your concern there what
+
+was interesting you you about
+
+that well well it was it was it was
+
+um it was about you you saying about the
+
+hand the hand being separate from the
+
+body but it it comes back to the
+
+original thing about which was a prior
+
+Consciousness matter
+
+energy you know like because we were
+
+discussing about the greater
+
+consciousness
+
+H I still don't see what you were
+
+exploring with the question but that's
+
+okay we can we can continue
+
+on can I just ask if what he was if Mick
+
+if what you were if what you were saying
+
+had to do with the fact that you were
+
+wondering if everything that's physical
+
+that um we're made of and everything
+
+that whatever we experience whatever we
+
+we have in formed
+
+all of it on some level I don't know if
+
+that's what you were saying but that's
+
+kind of what I was getting
+
+from I was extending dar's Point both
+
+you know the the hand being a
+
+representation of you
+
+yourself um or not
+
+representation
+
+um you know a piece but
+
+also of you you
+
+know that that we were we were
+
+discussing about the the part being the
+
+hole and the hall being the
+
+part yeah that makes sense I mean the
+
+weird thing though is that as you can
+
+see my hand is not actually a part there
+
+are no parts to living beings the the
+
+concept of Parts is a
+
+um it's a
+
+surgical and uh a
+
+dissection perspective there are no
+
+parts I'd love to see you get one of
+
+your molecules separate from your body I
+
+can't
+
+wait Dar let's go back to the water the
+
+water you drink a bit of the water the
+
+water is outside you you drink a bit
+
+it's in
+
+then you take a piss 24 to 48 hours
+
+later back out s you again so there are
+
+exchanges um of molecules of KS stuff
+
+from your body to and from
+
+[Music]
+
+you yes if there are separate things we
+
+can imagine that yes and if there aren't
+
+separate things we can still imagine
+
+something similar we can imagine um
+
+unities in discrete processes and
+
+situations interacting
+
+together the weird thing
+
+is as
+
+humans I can't speak for anyone else but
+
+as a human
+
+I cannot or at least I do not perceive
+
+the entirety of the universe and my
+
+experience as like one un
+
+so the mind seems conditioned to
+
+separate certain things and categorize
+
+them and label them and assess them as
+
+separate even though
+
+ultimately I think this universe is
+
+probably more of a much more of a Unity
+
+um
+
+like when I look at the environment
+
+right now the desk the glasses on it the
+
+class outside the birds the
+
+trees it is
+
+somehow foreign to me to perceive
+
+everything as a whole and everything in
+
+relation to everything
+
+else and it's quite trippy to like try
+
+and delve into that kind of
+
+perception um is it possible that I'm
+
+thinking in terms of meditation and the
+
+times that maybe without thinking about
+
+it you felt just felt a sense of of
+
+Oneness I don't know I don't think you
+
+can think yourself into an awareness of
+
+Oneness I don't think that's possible I
+
+all think all the thinking part is the
+
+part that we do to divide things up and
+
+you know do what Darren was talking
+
+about with the vigilance the ambiguity
+
+prediction and all that which is the
+
+other side of the coin which creates the
+
+many things we you know out of the one
+
+so you know where we we're doing all
+
+this stuff to keep ourselves functional
+
+and of course we can get lost in that
+
+that's all I mean to the degree that we
+
+forget you know what we're even here for
+
+and I really think that a question that
+
+kind of was alluded to but that wasn't
+
+you know that never clearly kind of gets
+
+out there exactly is what is the purpose
+
+behind us being here and I know know you
+
+know that Nick was talking about you
+
+know the purposes and I think this is
+
+true I personally like I said think
+
+broke out I think we just broke up
+
+because we're bored and we're looking at
+
+each other from different eyes so that
+
+you know so that we have an experience
+
+and we build on that and you know I
+
+think it's you know we've created heaven
+
+Out of Hell made this thing hell instead
+
+of fun because we've gotten so lost in
+
+the in the having and the doing in order
+
+to be that we we excessive in it and we
+
+forgotten the whole experience of the
+
+being and I don't think you know so
+
+that's the way that's my take on the
+
+right well whatever might be the purpose
+
+or the cause of this I definitely don't
+
+see it as ethical because we have
+
+Horrors like factory farming and
+
+Commercial Fishing and wage slavery and
+
+ecocide and abuse and poverty and famine
+
+and disease and enormous just sheer
+
+unimaginable amounts of suffering going
+
+on probably not just on this planet but
+
+others and just it's
+
+whatever the cause or Reason is it is
+
+definitely not ethical
+
+right I mean let me just ask I something
+
+and I'll stop talking but you know you
+
+just
+
+talk
+
+um all that you say that is wrong I mean
+
+and I think this is what I mean
+
+religions have certainly looked at this
+
+I mean everything looks at this
+
+philosophers religions they don't really
+
+come back down but you know if if we are
+
+out of touch with our with our
+
+experience as beings and it yeah it is
+
+pain I mean what ISM talks about you
+
+know suffering and that is the nature of
+
+life and that is painfully we call it
+
+ethical I mean we don't need to
+
+exacerbate the suffering once we
+
+understand that what we've been doing in
+
+the the the having and the doing part of
+
+our
+
+survival when it becomes destructive to
+
+the being you know then it's no longer
+
+that is to me the lie if you want to say
+
+a lie and and I think the LIE can only
+
+be spoken of in human terms you know
+
+that that the lies that we tell
+
+ourselves are about what we really need
+
+what we need physically to survive and
+
+what we need to do to get that those are
+
+the lies if they are destructive of the
+
+being and if if in my opinion the the
+
+being wants to live in love and in and
+
+as close to Oneness as possible that
+
+experience of connectivity whether it's
+
+with an individual that you love or
+
+sensing it more externally you know as a
+
+as a a way of of of knowing that other
+
+people are being taken care of and and
+
+wanting the best for them I mean it's
+
+all down to the fact that we've gotten
+
+lost we I mean kind of like I guess
+
+maybe the Bible describes her you know
+
+just like in falling into I hate to use
+
+the word but I am just bear with me
+
+meets you know we we are having these
+
+experiences and we need to REM as in put
+
+ourselves together again who we are and
+
+and why we're here and if we don't do
+
+that if we don't realize our reason for
+
+being or if French like to call it rise
+
+on that the French certainly know how to
+
+bring a certain amount of pleasure to
+
+life you know and and and and connection
+
+then then we are lost because that is
+
+the the loss is the loss of our own
+
+awareness of what we are so I just find
+
+it incredibly tragic that in order to
+
+remain physically embodied and survive
+
+at all it is kind of necessitated by
+
+nature to kill and eat other
+
+beings uh with varying degrees of
+
+sentience the whole thing is kind of
+
+messed up in my
+
+view well I don't think we have to kill
+
+beings I mean there's a lot of have you
+
+tried not eating at
+
+all no well I mean if you're not eating
+
+meat and other like you say OBS sensous
+
+beings but do you think that somehow
+
+you're put
+
+it but if you've been if you've been
+
+that you're somehow wrong to take up
+
+space and to be put on this planet for
+
+example no I don't think I'm wrong I
+
+just think that it is tragic that we
+
+find ourselves trillions quadrillions of
+
+us in such a
+
+situation so so if you didn't want to
+
+eat meat and you didn't want to eat you
+
+know anything other than vegetables
+
+which I understand from what you're
+
+saying implies that there's a certain
+
+amount of sentence do you know that I
+
+mean when you do you know are you sure
+
+that what they experience at your eating
+
+them the veget
+
+rum is is terrible suffering in in pain
+
+is that are you sure of that I'm not
+
+absolutely certain of that but plants do
+
+communicate and grow and respond and
+
+interact and send distress signals when
+
+they are bitten by caterpillars for
+
+example and they appear to have at least
+
+some degree of
+
+sentience um can I just just before you
+
+got too deeply into the the point the
+
+tragedy
+
+like the what you said no actually
+
+inspired me T or an Insight that you
+
+know the if you're looking around
+
+yourself and everything is bad you know
+
+the trees are going you know um the
+
+weather is messed up you know you see
+
+broader Society you see you know
+
+denigration in the cities those druggies
+
+you know whatever prob
+
+but isn't that that's that's a creation
+
+of
+
+our I'm just positing again that that is
+
+a creation of our conscious being here
+
+and that like Darren said earlier we can
+
+affect what's around us so we can
+
+actually change that so you know to rest
+
+in
+
+um uh sadness about us is not the way to
+
+be the way to be is to act for better in
+
+the way way in the best way you
+
+can I do think that wallowing and
+
+suffering and how terrible things are is
+
+definitely counterproductive in that it
+
+just adds one additional suffering being
+
+to the mix and doesn't really help
+
+anyone but at the same
+
+time if I had a massively expanded
+
+awareness and was aware
+
+of kind of everyone and everything that
+
+existed here at least locally on Earth
+
+it would not resemble kind of a personal
+
+self and and like a feron like a five
+
+senses but it would be multiplied
+
+massively by trillions or quadrillions
+
+depending on what you refer to a
+
+sentient um but again you're limiting
+
+you're limiting your lack of not being
+
+omnipresent not being the the complete
+
+God uh not lamenting just
+
+uh we are we are like there's like you
+
+know I'm sure some of you here know no
+
+this but we have more capabilities than
+
+the five senses and the you know the
+
+physical beings that we are you know
+
+right there so and we are as being the
+
+higher conscious beings on this planet
+
+we are the ones that have been given the
+
+ability to make the changes for good or
+
+for bad so when we see around us the
+
+degradation of both nature and our
+
+living
+
+places
+
+then we we must find you know we we
+
+could find it within ourselves to act on
+
+that and make it
+
+better absolutely
+
+you know about fine horn right fine horn
+
+I guess everybody probably does that's
+
+where they went and they these giant
+
+vegetables bigger than any place else
+
+ever and you know about talking to
+
+plants and basically this was a
+
+spiritual community that kind of did
+
+that I believe I don't know a lot about
+
+them but I know they did and I you know
+
+I I I don't know I mean if you are
+
+vegetarian or vegan and you you're not
+
+causing any um animal to suffer either
+
+through its conditions or by eating it
+
+that that I mean plants are our parents
+
+they came first they birthed us their
+
+seeds are carried around by animals
+
+eating them so that they can can
+
+proliferate and we do their biding so I
+
+mean and the fruits that plants produce
+
+are not
+
+suffering from our eating you
+
+know you know
+
+perhaps who knows but I mean I know I
+
+know there's senss of course and
+
+Consciousness absolutely but I don't
+
+know if you need to worry about plants
+
+screaming by eating them because I don't
+
+really think that's how it works I don't
+
+think they would be you know but of
+
+course loving
+
+and but
+
+I I
+
+need and I you know it's just a
+
+continuation of the
+
+life um I'd like to speak to this
+
+problem I've been um away from the mic a
+
+little bit had to do a couple things but
+
+I
+
+I I know uh naoko well we we are close
+
+friends I invited him to the
+
+meeting and
+
+um naoko has a specific
+
+concern um which I don't want to
+
+minimize however I do want to examine
+
+some disperate features of this concern
+
+and the concern goes something like and
+
+nowo feel free to correct
+
+me um this big experiment that we call
+
+existence is bad
+
+it's bad because whatever is organizing
+
+it doesn't seem to be concerned with
+
+alleviating suffering and generates a
+
+whole bunch of suffering and new ways of
+
+suffering all day long every day that
+
+being must not
+
+be go ahead sorry uh I don't think all
+
+of
+
+existence W that's a lot of
+
+feedback go ahead I don't think all of
+
+existence is bad or terrible or
+
+unethical but certainly at least on
+
+Earth uh
+
+there's
+
+just an unimaginable amount of
+
+suffering in many instances of beings
+
+and nothing really rescues
+
+them okay let me maybe death yeah let me
+
+address that somewhat
+
+sure
+
+so and by the way I'm I'm trying to mute
+
+my mic whenever stop talking to minimize
+
+feedback because I'm having to record on
+
+the local machine I don't have any other
+
+way to do it since I was unable to find
+
+a way to cause the recording to happen
+
+but
+
+nonetheless um all right
+
+so there are a bunch of atheists running
+
+around like God's bad because he lets
+
+children get chopped up and tortured and
+
+animals tortured and everything being
+
+tortured and it's not untrue that things
+
+are experiencing torture that that part
+
+is actually going on not
+
+arguing however we don't know what the
+
+actual situation is if there is even an
+
+actual situation situation may be the
+
+interplay of myriads of probabilities
+
+and possibilities which I think is
+
+probably likely and I can you know I can
+
+suggest some scenarios that might be
+
+going on but one of the things I could
+
+do is say that
+
+um I could make the leap and say waking
+
+conscious
+
+is the cause of all suffering not God
+
+not humans none of that in order for
+
+there to be suffering you got to be
+
+awake so waking consciousness is
+
+actually the the lethal star that causes
+
+all the torture and blah blah blah blah
+
+blah and I could you know I could make a
+
+sophisticated argument around that even
+
+though I'm using it rather trivially at
+
+the moment but notice that um dreaming
+
+is pretty weird right because things
+
+don't actually suffer in dreams that we
+
+can that we can know also I've had an
+
+experience of a proposition in
+
+Awareness which I think is probably
+
+tripartite due to this experience I
+
+won't go in depth into the experience
+
+but um I'll just say briefly that during
+
+a sleep paralysis
+
+event uh there were three positions that
+
+I was aware of in Consciousness one of
+
+them was the me in the dream itself
+
+which was literally being crushed
+
+together as if there was some gravity
+
+Source inside my body that was causing
+
+me to compress into myself and my bones
+
+were breaking and I was terrified and it
+
+was horrible above that was a position
+
+that was an absolutely impartial
+
+Observer just
+
+watching no response no
+
+reaction above that was some kind of an
+
+exploding light show vaguely similar to
+
+the Dow symbol in the colors of a box of
+
+Tide detergent that was
+
+pulsing and
+
+so what I'm trying to say here is
+
+complicated the first thing I'm trying
+
+to say is that if there's a
+
+God it doesn't go around repairing bad
+
+situations in material existence that's
+
+not what it's up to right and similarly
+
+you could also easily say right that um
+
+the sun is bad because because of the
+
+sun there are tortures and torturers and
+
+the tortured and and let me really clear
+
+there is aonic experience in In Living
+
+beings living beings experience pain
+
+there is aonic experience in living
+
+beings um but how we think about that
+
+requires I think a very an array of
+
+unique perspectives depending not on
+
+some authoritative perspective in a
+
+superp position over all of existence
+
+but rather in direct relational concern
+
+with and for other beings
+
+so for example um Israel isn't a
+
+being right that's a
+
+construct that's like kind of like a
+
+demon that captures human beings and
+
+gets them to do things so is the United
+
+States so is
+
+Palestine but what Israel is doing quote
+
+unquote if if this process can be said
+
+to be acting Andor be responsible for
+
+actions is obliterating humans and like
+
+killing children women and all kinds of
+
+things uh out of some bizarre
+
+supposition out of an array of bizarre
+
+suppositions that are entirely
+
+unjustifiable and I could say this is
+
+because of the sun if that darn Sun
+
+weren't up there none of that would be
+
+happening or I could say this is because
+
+of God this is God's fault God made
+
+everything and he didn't care you know
+
+she or he or they they didn't care to
+
+make it nice they just made it possible
+
+for it to be horrifically bad for
+
+billions of of beings
+
+all those things can be said however I
+
+think quote what's going on unquote and
+
+it isn't a what that's going on it's a
+
+who or an us um so the US that's going
+
+on is very complex and it it's the
+
+nature of of its origin expression
+
+process
+
+existence is profound now my own
+
+experience of the this origin is that it
+
+is good and ethical and beautiful but
+
+that doesn't
+
+preclude pain or suffering or even Agony
+
+or torture it doesn't preclude rape it
+
+doesn't preclude
+
+murder um and somehow in the
+
+bizarre uh complexity of that which is
+
+of we who
+
+are these features of existence
+
+serve some crucial and I would argue
+
+beautiful purpose now I know this is a
+
+very dangerous thing to say I get it
+
+it's really really dangerous people are
+
+going to if if if Ordinary People heard
+
+me they'd be like you're justifying
+
+murder and and bad things okay okay I'm
+
+not trying to justify anything what I'm
+
+saying is there's a perspective above
+
+where we normally
+
+lurk from which Agony and torture and
+
+pain and suffering
+
+are intrinsically not merely
+
+redeemed they are themselves
+
+Redemptive they make a transformation in
+
+the manifold of being that is crucially
+
+important profound possibly even holy
+
+that doesn't mean we go around
+
+engendering
+
+them it means that we look with
+
+curiosity and wonder it means that I do
+
+anyway I look with curiosity and wonder
+
+on the the the pain and the suffer
+
+uffing and The Agony and the Tormentor
+
+and the
+
+tormented I look with Wonder and loving
+
+kindness upon them and I don't merely
+
+leap to
+
+simple um ethical critiques now let me
+
+let me now that I've formed that little
+
+you know glass of water of ideas I want
+
+to say a couple of other
+
+things uh similar to what Mick was
+
+saying surely I am offended
+
+by beings harming other
+
+beings I'm offended when I am harmed I
+
+would like to interfere in or intervene
+
+in situations in which beings are
+
+harming other beings I am particularly
+
+um upset about what I've seen going on
+
+in the Middle East and in
+
+Ukraine and in all kinds of places that
+
+aren't right on the tip of the
+
+news
+
+um one of the things I would say about
+
+those things is that
+
+it's only been possible for humans to
+
+think of quote the world unquote for a
+
+very short period of the developmental
+
+time of our
+
+species perhaps less than a thousand
+
+years maybe a little bit more and
+
+probably more like in the way that we
+
+think of the world that's only been
+
+possible for about maybe 300 years so
+
+for most of human history it was
+
+impossible for you to know for example
+
+that people in distant places were
+
+suffering or that the rainforests of the
+
+Amazon were being burned down down for
+
+soy plantations or cattle grazing stuff
+
+or that humans were ripping the oceanic
+
+ecologies to shreds or spraying
+
+[ __ ] um Monsanto chemicals that you
+
+know [ __ ] up our hormones and our our
+
+biological molecules
+
+forever
+
+um yeah now that was that was impossible
+
+for most of human history and I would
+
+argue that we are not set up to be able
+
+to relate with that purview
+
+intelligently or effectively or to
+
+remain healthy when
+
+subjected to the incredible burden of
+
+Agony and um Badness that we know that
+
+we are informed of via the
+
+media and other
+
+people um and this leads to an even
+
+worse thing which is now it's always
+
+there's always been some portion of
+
+misinformation or
+
+disinformation in the media
+
+there's always been some spin but now we
+
+have stuff that's pure fiction right it
+
+was made up just to manipulate us
+
+there's no spin it's all spin so we have
+
+that too it's very hard for a
+
+compassionate loving sensitive being to
+
+exist in any kind of healthy way while
+
+being aware of for example the suffering
+
+that animals are exposed to or the
+
+obliteration of the anciently conserved
+
+ecologies or you know children being
+
+exploded in Gaza I mean there's no way
+
+to cope with that what do you do what do
+
+you what's the right move I'm not
+
+claiming there is a right move but what
+
+I'm trying to say
+
+is we have to take into consideration
+
+that we're not equipped for this and we
+
+also have to take take into
+
+consideration that when we form a cohort
+
+like we're doing here which is amazing
+
+and I'm so grateful for it and I honor
+
+each of you for being here and your
+
+uniqueness and your your
+
+humanness then and only then do we have
+
+the
+
+ability to become different from what
+
+the humans are doing remember earlier in
+
+the conversation we were talking about
+
+certain kinds of
+
+conspiracies right the conspiracy for
+
+example between a doctor a patient a
+
+medicine and and the context in which
+
+those roles are
+
+enacted and one of the things that we
+
+are trained to do and that I think is
+
+very tragic and
+
+disempowering is that we act like um
+
+separated
+
+Spectators commenting on atrocity even
+
+when we're here together forming a Unity
+
+which could actually affect the world
+
+history the future right we're so used
+
+to being isolated which is by the way
+
+for most of human history [ __ ]
+
+impossible right there's no such thing
+
+as an individual a couple thousand years
+
+ago and and I don't know how old our
+
+species are but it's but we're a lot
+
+older than that so the idea of an
+
+individual is a terrifying idea it's a
+
+it's it's an abstraction a literal
+
+subtraction of a human being from
+
+everything that is important to Being
+
+Human and one of the problems that
+
+occurs when we are abstracted in this
+
+way and we are rendered into
+
+individuals is we think things let me be
+
+really clear about something briefly
+
+this whole thinking thing thinking is to
+
+a mind as being nailed to a rock is to a
+
+bird
+
+that is not what our minds are for our
+
+minds are not for sitting around
+
+thinking things thinking is a symptom of
+
+isolation what our minds are for are
+
+communion they're for forging the Third
+
+Way together in real time which I like
+
+to think we at least have the
+
+opportunity to do here and that's
+
+something that
+
+I'm always wanting and can do very
+
+effectively with with a small group or
+
+even one other
+
+person um so that that goal post is much
+
+nearer at hand than we imagine and one
+
+of the problems I have for myself and I
+
+notice other people have it too though
+
+I'll speak about myself is I tend to
+
+cling to my
+
+pet um biases shoulder chips chips on my
+
+shoulder things I'm I was hurt by or or
+
+make me mad or I don't
+
+understand and so that when when I get
+
+into a group what might happen to me
+
+sometimes less so these days is I'm
+
+older now is that I really just play the
+
+broken record of my upsets you know the
+
+things that that irked me or hurt me or
+
+that I don't understand or that I
+
+resent and you know I was writing the
+
+other night after talk having an amazing
+
+talk with someone and I said to
+
+them when we're with people who are
+
+largely absent what's important is being
+
+right
+
+and when we're with people who are
+
+coming into presence
+
+together what's important is to be more
+
+beautiful together each
+
+moment and I just don't want us while
+
+we're here today I would like if we did
+
+something else to cling to our pet
+
+biases and previous positions and
+
+resentments and so forth and look you
+
+know if it's important let's let's get
+
+it on the table and talk about it but
+
+you know we have in this moment this
+
+unique opportunity of being together and
+
+seeing and learning together in a way
+
+that I think is astonishing and
+
+beautiful let's take the wildest kind of
+
+advantage of that to whatever degree
+
+we're
+
+able
+
+maybe
+
+arly
+
+um I I'm just I'm going to add a
+
+suggestion
+
+that when um people are out in the
+
+bo you know you here on this cou that
+
+they
+
+observe you know even if they're not in
+
+good surrounds they observe things of
+
+Duty or moments of
+
+beauty because you can build on
+
+that and I'm obviously very interested
+
+in in
+
+um what Daren is saying about you know
+
+this communion of groups what they can
+
+do together
+
+yeah
+
+yeah it's not just the observation of
+
+the of beauty it's the becoming
+
+beautiful together with and for each
+
+other in the history and future of all
+
+beings I know that sounds like a kind of
+
+tall order but it's not tall at all we
+
+can do it instantaneously the moment
+
+that we agree it starts to happen the
+
+only real thing that's required is our
+
+agreement that we'd like to go in that
+
+direction together and we can bring up
+
+and discuss and dissect the problems of
+
+the planet the problem of the humans all
+
+the dark things that plague us we can
+
+look at those but we'll be able to see
+
+them from above rather than from within
+
+and or you know rather than from the
+
+perspective of a separated person inside
+
+a [ __ ] nightmare machine and that is
+
+how it really feels to be a human for
+
+lots of humans right this moment and to
+
+some degree for me I mean a few months
+
+ago I met met a young woman we've been
+
+friends on Facebook for a long time and
+
+this goes back to mix question about
+
+parts and what happens when they're lost
+
+and so
+
+on um we've been friends on Facebook for
+
+some time and I saw a uh a post of hers
+
+that clued me in that something it
+
+alerted me that something really bad had
+
+happened in her life so I went to her
+
+we've never spoken or texted or anything
+
+I went to her page we were just Facebook
+
+friends I went to page and I saw that
+
+um she had in November she was in she
+
+was on a freeway and there was a there
+
+was an accident up ahead and so the
+
+traffic had
+
+stopped and she had to slow down very
+
+rapidly and stop her car and she was
+
+worried that perhaps people behind her
+
+wouldn't be able to stop in
+
+time unfortunately the person behind her
+
+wasn't even aware the traffic had slowed
+
+down probably looking at their
+
+smartphone or drunk or both or who knows
+
+what they were up
+
+to it smashed into the back of her car
+
+and it shattered her spine and she was
+
+paralyzed from the chest
+
+down now I've learned some astonishing
+
+things from conversing with this woman
+
+because what we do when we converse
+
+isn't we we don't just talk about
+
+trouble
+
+um we we make that third
+
+mind suddenly I'm beyond Darren and I
+
+can see into the
+
+history of her and me and us and the
+
+world in a whole new way as if as if
+
+some kind of star was being born that
+
+sheds light whose light isn't mere
+
+illumination it's
+
+insight and so when we're together I
+
+could see in all kinds of ways that I
+
+can't see when I'm by myself and the
+
+same is true with each one of you um
+
+naoko and I we've had astonishing
+
+conversations Nancy and I our first
+
+conversation's amazing we've had a
+
+number since then mostly here um I
+
+haven't had a private conversation with
+
+Beast yet I don't think or Mick maybe
+
+one can't remember but what I'm trying
+
+to get at
+
+is you can lose part of yourself and
+
+still have it right my friend Amber she
+
+doesn't mind me mentioning her name '
+
+already been through this she she has no
+
+she can't feel anything from the chest
+
+down she can't use her legs probably
+
+ever
+
+again right they're still
+
+alive but she
+
+can't they're still biology right
+
+there's still living biology but her
+
+capacity to interact with them with her
+
+awareness ends at one of her
+
+vertebra and someone else that I'm very
+
+close to is in a very similar situation
+
+in fact I really couldn't be closer to
+
+that person um very similar not exactly
+
+the
+
+same so you know the problem of
+
+suffering is profound and the problem of
+
+part and whole is
+
+profound and we can gain insight into
+
+those matters together if that's our
+
+goal but we have to carefully organize I
+
+think our motivations because purpose
+
+produces
+
+process that that leads to progeny and
+
+the progeny are what we think and see
+
+and
+
+believe and we should be really careful
+
+about that last thing belief except in a
+
+pretty limited you know scope of you
+
+know I believe that my desk is physical
+
+and isn't going to just become a
+
+different thing or disappear in the next
+
+few
+
+moments um but yeah we can you know when
+
+we bring our minds together with the
+
+intention to learn to see beyond what
+
+we've seen
+
+before to resist the preservation of our
+
+pet resentments and biases and
+
+figurations of reality and existence and
+
+the humans and so forth then we have the
+
+chance to fly and I'm not very
+
+interested in being nailed to the cross
+
+of my history or my biases I want to
+
+learn I want to go where I've never been
+
+before and our minds you know humans
+
+think a lot the the humans some of them
+
+they think a lot about flying through
+
+space and stuff that's not even vaguely
+
+interesting compared to what we've got
+
+right here because what we've got right
+
+here is everything everything everyone
+
+is here everyone before us everyone
+
+after us every Star every planet every
+
+World they are right
+
+here again it's this problem of the
+
+stuff we think is outside us and we
+
+think it's outside in space but but we
+
+also can think it's outside in
+
+time so I'm just so excited to have the
+
+chance to take off the costume of my
+
+individuality with you and learn to see
+
+and grow and play and explore together
+
+that's what I think is absolutely
+
+amazing and I trust it I really trust
+
+that please write this down from the
+
+beginning of the time you spoke about it
+
+um um if you would I know you have the
+
+recording
+
+D yes presuming nothing bad happens with
+
+the recording I will try
+
+that okay you know what you said about
+
+the uh I just seen something recently
+
+about how basically living in a city is
+
+psychosis in and of itself people become
+
+psychotic literally from living in a
+
+city in the sense that we weren't meant
+
+to live with any more than like 200
+
+people that we knew at time because once
+
+you go beyond that people just stand by
+
+when things happen that they would never
+
+stand by if they you know were in a
+
+circumstance where they knew the people
+
+you know whether it's an accident or
+
+whatever so yeah I think if you writee
+
+this down it would be yeah you were
+
+talking about the bystander
+
+effect yeah but it doesn't occur if
+
+you're people that bystander is
+
+basically
+
+that like a somebody who's not
+
+Psychopathic I'm sorry uh what do you
+
+call it somebody who's a psychopath it's
+
+a psychopathic thing or a sociopathic
+
+thing that you become not me necessarily
+
+or you but people in general become when
+
+they live with too many people where
+
+they feel they can't do anything about
+
+anything you know it all starts locally
+
+you know and and I think that you know
+
+it's just you know if you you know love
+
+locally and do what you're describing
+
+locally that makes a big difference you
+
+know and it's really funny that to say
+
+this that you said today about your pet
+
+you know the pet ideas and things like
+
+that and I I had a real realization this
+
+morning and I was thinking maybe they'll
+
+talk about this because they does seem
+
+to be synchronicity between things for
+
+me right when things are you know true
+
+you certain sense of the word you know
+
+but I can see how my my focus on
+
+people's awareness
+
+about being as opposed to doing and
+
+having is directly proportional to some
+
+not that it isn't true but to my own
+
+lack of doing that
+
+myself you know we're sorry go
+
+ahead let's um not stand Bo let's
+
+um as suggested by Darren let's come
+
+together in
+
+form of communion of
+
+our
+
+um giving
+
+our life sharing our life force to our
+
+attention and good intentions towards
+
+Amber and Dan's
+
+friend that they may feel that life
+
+force through them and it may Aid or
+
+improve their situation in some way oh I
+
+love that yes yes please let's just have
+
+a moment
+
+and direct our communal
+
+mind to both of those
+
+beings and they're healing
+
+it's easy for me to cling to my
+
+isolation and my separation
+
+um now in this phase of my life more
+
+than
+
+ever because I'm very isolated at the
+
+moment
+
+and yet at the same time in in a way in
+
+the way that that being awake charges
+
+the possibility of
+
+dreaming in that same
+
+way my
+
+isolation charges is what takes place
+
+when I come together with other minds
+
+and almost never do I just stay like oh
+
+I'm just going to be
+
+daring that almost never happens like I
+
+don't know what happens but it's the
+
+kind of a thing that happens in in a
+
+chrysalis or a
+
+cocoon not that a caterpillar isn't
+
+[ __ ] amazing a caterpillar is amazing
+
+if you point your if you pointed your
+
+finger at the sky right and you traveled
+
+in a
+
+line 10 million light years long across
+
+that angle that you're pointing in the
+
+sky your chances of encountering a
+
+caterpillar probably
+
+zero I mean it's like a decimal point
+
+with 10 million zeros and then a one at
+
+the end you're not going to find a
+
+caterpillar right time space is amazing
+
+and it's vast but what it doesn't have
+
+is what we got out here
+
+caterpillars and they make these things
+
+we call chrysalises in English or
+
+cocoons and what happens is like when
+
+I'm getting ready to to go together with
+
+some others is I go into that Crysis and
+
+what comes out the other side is sure as
+
+hell ain't me I mean it's using my mouth
+
+and it it utilizes Darren's body and his
+
+memories and his ideas and
+
+stuff but one of the weird features of
+
+that is
+
+that I know this is a strange thing to
+
+say but I have memories of having an
+
+angel's mind with mine and I have
+
+memories of thinking the way that Angels
+
+think and what I mean by Angel isn't
+
+that regular thing in the
+
+Bible it's some kind of transcendental
+
+intelligence or maybe even it's the
+
+logos and so when we're talking I try to
+
+get the hell out of the way and let the
+
+transcendental intelligence that I
+
+remember being
+
+with Come and sing and play and speak
+
+and learn and grow and shine light on
+
+things and every one of us has this you
+
+don't have to be me to have this we all
+
+have this we have like these layers far
+
+above our personal identity from which
+
+we
+
+can participate in relation in
+
+conversation in
+
+Exploration discovery in healing in
+
+Wonder in awe in play in astonishment in
+
+in Beauty and I absolutely believe in
+
+that and I also believe that it I can't
+
+stop
+
+Israel I can't stop grocery
+
+stores and the slaughter
+
+houses but I might be able to affect the
+
+situation or maybe we might be able to
+
+affect the situation in a not directly
+
+physical interventionist fashion by how
+
+and when we come together and what we do
+
+when we
+
+do beautifully put
+
+I hardly
+
+agree I
+
+I so we have an agreement here seems
+
+like pretty much everybody here agrees
+
+and there are some things that are so
+
+amazing and beautiful that everybody
+
+will agree you know people say things
+
+like well you can't change the world the
+
+humans are all [ __ ] up and they're
+
+doing these bad things and they're not
+
+going to stop them yeah we might not
+
+stop them we might not be able to
+
+intervene
+
+um
+
+mechanically but what if we Chang the
+
+veilance of the
+
+field of the mind of the network of
+
+Minds in which we participate by just
+
+adjusting the polarity the purpose of
+
+coming together we have these things
+
+called churches which are really weird
+
+um but but there's something Beyond a
+
+church where humans could come together
+
+momentarily and just become like so much
+
+more human than they've ever been over
+
+the past months and weeks and years and
+
+hours of their
+
+lives
+
+and like actually be alive together even
+
+for an
+
+hour and that kind of a thing when it
+
+happens it sends shock waves through the
+
+entire network of human Minds the
+
+problem is we're not we're coming
+
+together for the wrong reasons social
+
+media draws us together to like [ __ ] or
+
+object or you know be triggered or
+
+whatever triggered in one of 19 ways or
+
+be primed to buy something or you know
+
+whatever right but we could Prime each
+
+other for something that actually
+
+matters and I like to think that's what
+
+we're up to here and yes I'm playing you
+
+know preacher on the pulpit a bit I'll
+
+admit it I am but somebody's got to like
+
+the pulpits there let's let's put
+
+something interesting up there
+
+somehow um so yeah human when I was with
+
+the angel one of the things it said is
+
+and of course it never actually spoke it
+
+just made my mind it structured my
+
+awareness alike with its awareness by
+
+its proximity sort of like that
+
+morphological field stuff in the
+
+sheldrake thing that uh Nancy mentioned
+
+earlier um or morphogenic Fields excuse
+
+me it structured My Mind by its
+
+proximity but one of the things that I
+
+became aware of that it saw was
+
+that one of the greatest Powers human
+
+beings have is
+
+agreement and that's what's being
+
+mediated by social
+
+media when we're participating in that
+
+we're mostly making a bad mistake and
+
+and if we're not participating
+
+intelligently we're also making a bad
+
+mistake so it's not just like it's only
+
+bad but it's really bad in what it's
+
+doing to the humans and their the
+
+network of their minds we need to do
+
+something different from that um
+
+dramatically soon but my point is just
+
+that
+
+um when we agree with something truly
+
+beautiful that makes medicine for all
+
+beings and they all get interested every
+
+one of my ancestral mothers wakes up for
+
+a moment in her grave and was like did
+
+he just do he did what he did something
+
+so beautiful that it woke me up from you
+
+I'm making a joke kind of right but but
+
+yeah the the beings of history and the
+
+beings of the future they are watching
+
+us with great interest and concern and
+
+they're hoping that we're going to like
+
+we're going to sit up in the Crypt of
+
+modern civilization and do something
+
+[ __ ] amazing
+
+beautiful they're aching for it that's
+
+what they worked and sweat and swe and
+
+suffered for that one possibility that
+
+we could become that their children
+
+could become beautiful together and
+
+liberate and heal and adore each other
+
+and wake up together and come into
+
+insight and awareness I know this this
+
+starting to sound like like a Church
+
+sermon I really believe in these things
+
+I'm not I'm not reading from the
+
+script that's that's obvious I mean
+
+really you know I mean I know I just
+
+said this if there's any way you can
+
+write up the intention I think this is
+
+the intention for the group I don't
+
+think anybody would disagree with that
+
+but maybe I'm Voice or objections but I
+
+mean I do think that is the intention of
+
+the group and
+
+maybe I this is just a thought maybe we
+
+could we could in our initial when
+
+people come on board to the group we
+
+could have it as that silent connection
+
+of um I mean I'm going to say the word
+
+prayer although it's intention you can
+
+call it whatever you want just like we
+
+did a moment ago for for your friend and
+
+whoever else you know maybe there's some
+
+way we can also create a group mind in
+
+Our intention to connect and have the
+
+right Beauty come from the group you
+
+know and that that it's not so much that
+
+so important that we talk about things
+
+you know that we you're focusing on that
+
+that could be too but more start with a
+
+feeling more start with a connection
+
+more start with the kind of thing that
+
+you're talking about Darren you know as
+
+a as a beginning to you know if you kind
+
+of start the day so to speak I don't
+
+know if anybody's open to that or they
+
+think that's a good idea all that's just
+
+a thought
+
+I oh that's brilliant yes um in fact you
+
+reminded me that Sophie used to have
+
+sort of an introductory moment and I got
+
+involved in that and we should um have a
+
+kind of an introductory moment and also
+
+a closing moment and you know previously
+
+I was
+
+um I had concerns about taking over the
+
+extinction AI distinction AI Lord Hugh
+
+historical pyate
+
+ship um but I think those concerns have
+
+mostly gone away and we can just do
+
+whatever hell we want so yeah we should
+
+maybe Forge a
+
+new
+
+um desidera a
+
+new a
+
+Manifesto and um and mention some of
+
+these things I like that
+
+idea I'm going to walk away from the mic
+
+for a couple minutes I'll be back feel
+
+free to uh take a break or you know we
+
+might wind up soon if there's no if
+
+there's no further interest but um I'll
+
+be back in like five minutes actually I
+
+I'm actually going
+
+to sorry feedback I'm going to stop now
+
+because it's late to
+
+go great to see you much appreciation
+
+man yeah thank you
+
+byebye I should go as well um it was a
+
+very nice chatting
+
+B all right let's do the uh closing very
+
+briefly before you take off naoko
+
+um so what Sophie used to do which I
+
+thought was really interesting is she
+
+would say let's just take a moment we'll
+
+we'll we'll invent another one of our
+
+own sometime soon but let's just take a
+
+moment to be together and wash away all
+
+of the
+
+history and everything that was
+
+said and everything we thought and felt
+
+and just
+
+cleanse let's
+
+be free together
+
+inside for a moment
+
+it's so good being with you all thank
+
+you thank you I you're
+
+amazing much love to all of you and do
+
+it again next Sunday 11:30 a.m. PST be
+
+there be something much love he
+
+s okay
+
diff --git a/active-control b/active-control
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+This document discusses the relationship between the frameworks of Active Inference (AIF) and Control as Inference (CAI) for adaptive action selection. 
+1. **Formalisms of AIF and CAI**: Both AIF and CAI can be formalized in the context of a partially observed Markov Decision Process (POMDP), where the goal is to infer the posterior distribution over latent variables like states and actions given observations.
+2. **Control as Inference**: CAI introduces an additional "optimality" variable to encode the notion of value, where the goal is to recover the posterior over states and actions given the belief that the agent will observe itself being optimal. The variational bound can be decomposed into terms related to extrinsic value, state divergence, action divergence, and observation ambiguity.
+3. **Active Inference**: Unlike CAI, AIF does not introduce additional variables to incorporate value, but instead assumes the generative model is intrinsically biased towards valuable states or observations. The expected free energy functional in AIF requires maximizing both extrinsic and intrinsic value.
+4. **Encoding Value**: The key distinction between AIF and CAI is how they encode value into the generative model, with AIF using biased priors and CAI using exogenous optimality likelihoods. This leads to differences in the objectives and exploratory behavior of the two frameworks.
+
+This document provides a formal comparison between the frameworks of Active Inference and Control as Inference, highlighting their similarities and key differences in how they encode the notion of "value" into their respective generative models.
diff --git a/entropy-24-00710.pdf b/entropy-24-00710.pdf
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+This document presents a novel framework for understanding intelligence in terms of "Care", a metric focused on motivation, stress, and goal-directedness of agents. The key points discussed are:
+
+1. **Cognitive Light Cone Framework**: The scale of an agent's goals and the boundary of states it can possibly represent or work to change defines its "cognitive light cone", which can be used to compare diverse intelligences.
+2. **Two Distinct Light Cones**: Agents have a physical light cone (PLC) representing possible states, and a care light cone (CLC) representing their sphere of concern and motivation.
+3. **Bodhisattva Vow and Bodhisattva Path**: The Bodhisattva's commitment to universal compassion and infinite Care can be represented by an infinitely expanding CLC, suggesting it as a path to hyperintelligence.
+
+This framework integrates insights from biology, Buddhism, and AI to propose Care as a central invariant for understanding and advancing both natural and artificial intelligence.
diff --git a/niz012.pdf b/niz012.pdf
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+This document is a research article that discusses the role of active inference in perceptual awareness. The key points are:
+
+**1. Active inference treats perception and action as inferential processes governed by minimizing free energy**: This variational perspective formalizes the notion of perception as hypothesis testing and treats actions as experiments designed to gather evidence for or against alternative hypotheses.
+
+**2. Troxler fading and binocular rivalry demonstrate the importance of active engagement with the sensorium**: Troxler fading, where peripheral percepts dissipate during fixation, and binocular rivalry, where awareness alternates between distinct percepts, can be understood as optimal inferences under the assumption that the world may change in an unpredictable way.
+
+**3. Attention can be understood as a covert action that resolves uncertainty**: Just as overt actions like eye movements are used to gather informative data, covert attentional shifts can serve a similar purpose, leading to perceptual alternations in the absence of overt movements.
+
+**4. The model makes testable predictions about the relationship between Troxler fading and binocular rivalry**: Individuals who report longer Troxler fading times should exhibit less belief updating during binocular rivalry, and pharmacological manipulation of catecholamine signaling should systematically affect Troxler fading.
+
+**5. The computational mechanisms underlying these phenomena can be mapped onto the functional anatomy of attention and perceptual awareness**: Reciprocal connections between sensory and motor regions, particularly in the right frontoparietal network, are likely to play a crucial role.
+
+This paper presents a unified computational account of Troxler fading and binocular rivalry, grounded in the principles of active inference. By emphasizing the role of action in perceptual awareness, it provides a novel perspective on these phenomena and generates testable hypotheses about their underlying neurobiology.