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+---
+title: "Opt-Out of self-signed CAs (and their certs)"
+authors: [ "@joshuatcasey" ]
+status: "proposed"
+sponsor: [ "@cfryanr", "@ashish-amarnath" ]
+approval_date: "TBD"
+---
+
+*Disclaimer*: Proposals are point-in-time designs and decisions.
+Once approved and implemented, they become historical documents.
+If you are reading an old proposal, please be aware that the
+features described herein might have continued to evolve since.
+
+# Opt-Out of self-signed CAs (and their certs)
+
+## Problem Statement
+
+Pinniped's Concierge, Supervisor, and Local-User-Authenticator today require the use of self-signed certificate
+authorities (CAs). These self-signed CAs are used for a variety of purposes, but generally are used to sign leaf
+certificates used to serve TLS or sign leaf certificates for client authentication (mTLS).
+
+Using self-signed certificates can mean that custom CA bundles need to be installed on client machines so that clients
+can perform TLS verification with a Pinniped endpoint. As of Pinniped v0.32.0, any endpoints that are meant to be
+visited by a client machine can use external certificates. In particular, each Supervisor `FederationDomain` serves
+OIDC discovery and web endpoints that are meant to be visited by client machines, and each Concierge `ImpersonationProxy`
+is an endpoint meant to be visited by client machines. This proposal will not change configuration for those endpoints.
+
+However, Pinniped does expose various endpoints for Kubernetes-internal use, such as to serve a `/healthz` endpoint
+or an endpoint that backs an `APIService` (only the Kubernetes API Service will call an `APIService`), as well as
+create certificates for client authentication (when the impersonation proxy is enabled). Today, Pinniped will generate
+its own CA certificate and any leaf certificates that it needs.
+
+TBD: explain if/why this is bad
+
+## Terminology / Concepts
+
+* Self-signed certificate: A certificate not signed by a publicly-trusted CA authority.
+* Certificate Authority (CA): A certificate (with `isCA: true`) used to issue intermediate certificates or leaf
+certificates, such as certificates for serving TLS or certificates for client authentication (mTLS).
+* Generated certificate: A certificate generated by Pinniped, from its own CAs. By definition these generated certificates
+are not themselves self-signed, since they are always signed by a CA (even if that CA is self-signed).
+* External certificate: A certificate provided by something outside of Pinniped, such as `cert-manager`. Usually this
+is a leaf certificate (to serve TLS, for example), but could be a CA certificate.
+* Secret type `kubernetes.io/tls`: Secrets that must have keys `tls.crt` and `tls.key` that can contain either a CA,
+intermediate, or leaf certificate. See https://kubernetes.io/docs/concepts/configuration/secret/#tls-secrets.
+* `cert-manager`: A [tool](https://cert-manager.io/) to manage certificates used within a cluster. Generally outputs
+secrets of type `kubernetes.io/tls`, and may populate an additional data field `ca.crt` with a higher-level certificate
+if available.
+* CA Bundle: A collection of certificates used to verify TLS or some other certificate signature. Usually should only
+contain CA or intermediate certificates (not leaf certificates that should be rotated frequently), and should never
+contain private keys.
+
+## Proposal
+
+TBD
+
+### Goals and Non-goals
+
+Goal:
+* Pinniped should provide enough configuration options for Pinniped administrators to completely avoid using self-signed CAs
+* Pinniped should generally expect external certificates to be leaf certificates (to serve TLS, for example). Pinniped
+will need a CA certificate when the impersonation proxy is enabled, in order to issue client certificates for mTLS.
+* Pinniped should rely on Kubernetes standards such as secrets with type `kubernetes.io/tls`, instead of coupling itself
+to any specific tool such as `cert-manager`. However, Pinniped will defer to a `ca.crt` field for CA bundles if that
+field is available.
+
+Non-goals:
+* It is not a goal of this proposal to remove Pinniped's self-signed CAs (and require the user to configure all CAs and
+certificates). Pinniped should continue to generate any necessary CAs and certificates that are not externally provided.
+* It is not a goal of this proposal to change how the Supervisor signs the ID tokens that it issues. Those tokens are
+signed by ECDSA private keys specific to each `FederationDomain`. Clients that need to validate tokens issued by the
+Pinniped Supervisor can obtain the public keys through OIDC discovery, not through PKI distribution.
+* It is not a goal of this proposal to change configuration for `FederationDomain` or `ImpersonationProxy` resources
+that already accept external certificates as of v0.32.0
+
+#### API Changes
+
+TBD
+
+#### Configuration Changes
+
+TBD
+
+#### Upgrades
+
+TBD
+
+#### Tests
+
+TBD
+
+#### New Dependencies
+
+No.
+
+#### Performance Considerations
+
+No.
+
+#### Observability Considerations
+
+TBD
+
+#### Security Considerations
+
+TBD
+
+#### Usability Considerations
+
+TBD
+
+#### Documentation Considerations
+
+TBD
+
+### Other Approaches Considered
+
+TBD
+
+## Open Questions
+
+TBD
+
+## Answered Questions
+
+TBD
+
+## Implementation Plan
+
+TBD
+
+## Implementation PRs
+
+* TBD
diff --git a/proposals/2027_opt_out_of_self_signed_certificate_authorities/fail_test.go b/proposals/2027_opt_out_of_self_signed_certificate_authorities/fail_test.go
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index 0000000000..843055fc07
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+++ b/proposals/2027_opt_out_of_self_signed_certificate_authorities/fail_test.go
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+// Copyright 2024 the Pinniped contributors. All Rights Reserved.
+// SPDX-License-Identifier: Apache-2.0
+
+package fail_test
+
+// TODO: remove this file before merging.
+
+import (
+	"testing"
+
+	"github.com/stretchr/testify/require"
+)
+
+func Test(t *testing.T) {
+	require.Fail(t, "fail this test so that unit tests fail and integration tests do not run in CI")
+}