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Only humans get adrenaline #20042

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DreamySkrell
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@DreamySkrell DreamySkrell commented Oct 12, 2024

changes:

  • rscadd: "Only the human species can produce adrenaline."

reasoning:

  • This is not a meme PR, it was discussed on discord, and I do think this is a great idea to make it so other species aren't just humans but better.
  • Humans aren't as fast as tajara, aren't as strong as unathi, don't have psychics. But they could just be more like resilient than all these other species, be able to get up and run, when other species would be too tired or too hurt to continue.
  • "Only humans can just keep getting up, even when hit again and again, or keep running, even when their legs are broken. They're unstoppable."
  • The actual gameplay changes are pretty minimal I think? I feel this would have a much bigger lore effect.
  • Uhhh. It's hard for me to describe this change now, but it vibes well with me.

@DreamySkrell
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!review

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@Geevies Geevies left a comment

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may need to add monkeys to this list if theyre a species too

@alsoandanswer
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i think this should be a number rather than true/false so we can adjust adrenaline for different human subspecies i.e offworlders make less adrenaline

if it stays true/false it should be a flag instead i feel

@FluffyGhoster
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Strong disagree, it doesn't make sense that no other specie but humans produce adrenaline, while it's a well established biological mechanism that all mammals do (and Tajara are mammals to the best of my knowledge).

All the mammal species, and possibly Unathi (https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/12714015/), should produce it.
It should only be disabled for Diona and Vaurca, essentially.

Aside from that, I also agree with Wezzy, having an option to tweak the amounts would be a good addition, though it doesn't need to be done in this PR.

@DreamySkrell
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DreamySkrell commented Oct 12, 2024

Strong disagree, it doesn't make sense that no other specie but humans produce adrenaline, while it's a well established biological mechanism that all mammals do (and Tajara are mammals to the best of my knowledge).

Other species aren't from earth. Adrenaline could be a human (or earth) trait.
Sure, they're basically still just basically cats/lizards/frogs/ants, but I think every little bit of difference helps, baby steps etc.

As for the other suggestions, I will probably implement them, just want to know first if this is wanted by maintainers.

@FluffyGhoster
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My opinion's unchanged. I can see it work for Unathi maybe, but Tajara are mammals and share enough biology to make it very unbelievable that they would have no stress response system / produce hormones to regulate the blood pressure, and short of you adding a new hormone that does that, it would be adrenaline.

On that note, if the other species don't produce adrenaline, I'm not sure why they would react to it when it's administered to them? Adrenaline binds to adrenergic receptors, but it would be exceedingly unlikely they'd develop them if they don't also produce adrenaline? It seems we should also check that if the person injected with adrenaline doesn't produce it, it should also not respond to it being injected?

@desvenlafaxine
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desvenlafaxine commented Oct 13, 2024

If we want to get realistic, the Vaurca reaction would be closer to this. In a nutshell, some kind of soothing agent so that they stop fighting and prefer to leave. I would very much like to see this with Workers (and the new Attendant subspecies), but I still think that Myrmidons (which are more aggressive) would have some sort of adrenaline equivalent that keeps them fighting.

@DreamySkrell DreamySkrell changed the title Indomitable Human Spirit - only humans get adrenaline Only humans get adrenaline Oct 13, 2024
@shimmeristaken
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The realism argument can and should be put aside here for the sake of uniqueness. If we're going to argue realism - it's incredibly unrealistic that Tajara, a species hailing from a whole different planet, not only breathe the same air as humans, eat roughly the same food, get drunk off of ethanol, but are also mammals?

If we can ignore that, I think allowing humans the unique trait of producing adrenaline isn't that much more to the suspension of disbelief.

@NonQueueingMatt NonQueueingMatt added ⛔ Lore Discussion The PR will be discussed by the maintainers due to a potential lore impact. ⛔ Maintainer Discussion The PR will be discussed by the maintainers. labels Oct 14, 2024
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  • Lore Discussion: need to figure out if this is wanted, how to implement it for other species, potentially diversifying it.
  • Maintainer Discussion: need to figure out our future approach for species differences.

@NonQueueingMatt
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This PR is conceptually fine but needs to be diversified. Reach out to lore and figure out what (if any) species should have a less effective version of adrenaline, or a similar chem. Reasonable differences, basically.

@NonQueueingMatt NonQueueingMatt removed the ⛔ Maintainer Discussion The PR will be discussed by the maintainers. label Oct 30, 2024
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8 participants