Draft v8.0 replacement structure for personal names. #524

tychonievich · 2024-07-31T16:50:57Z

This draft was created based on conversation with members of the names working group in fisharebest/gedcom-name#27 and #473. The text is mostly new, though, and may have failed to capture some elements of those conversations; input from others is welcome.

A separate v7.1 draft is anticipated once conversation on this draft stabilizes.

This draft was created based on conversation with members of the names working group in fisharebest/gedcom-name#27 and #473. The text is mostly new, though, and may have failed to capture some elements of those conversations. A separate v7.1 draft is anticipated once conversation on this draft stabilizes.

dthaler · 2024-08-06T18:29:00Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-1-organization.md


-#### `PERSONAL_NAME_STRUCTURE` :=
+It is common for much of each name form to be identified in an name part,


Suggested change

It is common for much of each name form to be identified in an name part,

It is common for much of each name form to be identified in a name part,

dthaler · 2024-08-06T18:43:13Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-4-enumerations.md

+| `ESTATE` | House name, farm name, or name after moving into or marrying into a house/farm. Implies `LOCATION`. Incompatible with `SURN`. | |
+| `FORMAL` | A name only used official, formal settings. |
+| `GENERAL` | A name used in a wide variety of settings, both formal and informal. |
+| `GENERATIONAL` | A name part shared by particular generation of a family (i.e. siblings or first cousins, but not their parents or children). Implies a cultural pattern of sharing this part, not just a particular family's aesthetic naming patterns. |


Suggested change

| `GENERATIONAL` | A name part shared by particular generation of a family (i.e. siblings or first cousins, but not their parents or children). Implies a cultural pattern of sharing this part, not just a particular family's aesthetic naming patterns. |

| `GENERATIONAL` | A name part shared by particular generation of a family (i.e., siblings or first cousins, but not their parents or children). Implies a cultural pattern of sharing this part, not just a particular family's aesthetic naming patterns. |

dthaler · 2024-08-13T15:38:17Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-1-organization.md

-n SPFX <Text>                              {0:M}  g7:SPFX
-n SURN <Text>                              {0:M}  g7:SURN
-n NSFX <Text>                              {0:M}  g7:NSFX
+n NAME                                     {1:1}  g8:INDI-NAME


Also need to bump g7:record-INDI to g8:record-INDI as a result of this change

dthaler · 2024-08-13T15:39:42Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-1-organization.md

+        +3 LANG <Language>                 {1:1}  g7:LANG
+     +2 DATE <DateValue>                   {0:M}  g7:DATE
+     +2 <<SOURCE_CITATION>>                {0:M}
+  +1 <<NOTE_STRUCTURE>>                    {0:M}


I think we need a <<NOTE_STRUCTURE>> under PART and FORM alongside <<SOURCE_CITATION>>

dthaler · 2024-08-13T15:43:20Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-1-organization.md

 ```
+
+There are other ways this could be encoded; the how many parts and forms to add is up to the user.


Suggested change

There are other ways this could be encoded; the how many parts and forms to add is up to the user.

There are other ways this could be encoded; how many parts and forms to add is up to the user.

Can't parse grammar, not sure if this suggestion is what was intended

dthaler · 2024-08-13T15:43:33Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-1-organization.md

-This specification does not define how the meaning of multiple parts with the same tag differs from the meaning of a single part with a concatenated larger payload.
-However, some applications allow the user to chose whether to combine or split name parts, meaning the tag quantity should be treated as expressing at least a user preference.
-Even when multiple `SURN` tags are used, the `PersonalName` data type identifies a single surname substring between its slashes.
+The decision of whether two name forms count as a variants of a single name or as distinct names varies by culture and individual.


Suggested change

The decision of whether two name forms count as a variants of a single name or as distinct names varies by culture and individual.

The decision of whether two name forms count as variants of a single name or as distinct names varies by culture and individual.

dthaler · 2024-08-13T15:44:42Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-1-organization.md

+2 PART Kowalski
+3 TYPE SURN
+2 PART Kowalska
+3 TYPE SURN, HIDDEN


Per line 1110, should we have a type for "feminine"? And a type for "plural"?

dthaler · 2024-08-13T15:58:20Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-4-enumerations.md

+| `IMMIGRANT` | Name assumed at the time of immigration. |
+| `INFORMAL` | A name only used in casual, intimate, or informal settings. |
+| `LEGAL` | A name used for legal and official documents, but not in daily use. |
+| `LOCATION` | A name indicating a location of note, such as a city associated with the person. Often includes "of" or "from" type particles. Incompatible with `SURN`. |


There should be a way to associate a PLAC or SPLAC with the name then.

dthaler · 2024-08-13T15:59:34Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-4-enumerations.md

+| `MATERNAL` | A name inherited from the individuals' mother's family. Implies `SURN`. |
+| `MATRONYMIC` | A name of the individual's mother, possibly with a matronymic modifier. |
+| `NICK` | A descriptive or familiar name that is used instead of, or in addition to, one’s official or legal name. Some cultures use this for any name that is not used in legal documents, others only for names that would be inappropriate in formal settings. |
+| `NPFX` | Text that appears on a name line before the given and surname parts of a name. Implies that the person attaches this part to their name, but does not consider it part of the name itself. |


This description is not, in my opinion, useful in light of FORM being used to show where it appears. That is, location within a FORM need not be a PART in my opinion. If the description were recast to be more analogous to how SPFX' is defined below, it would be fine because now it's not defined by order but by algorithm. If that were done, NPFXandNSFXcould be combined just likeSPFX` no longer means "prefix" but could be a suffix or even intermediate words, as it is defined below.

dthaler · 2024-08-13T16:01:10Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-4-enumerations.md

+| `NPFX` | Text that appears on a name line before the given and surname parts of a name. Implies that the person attaches this part to their name, but does not consider it part of the name itself. |
+| `NSFX` | Text which appears on a name line after or behind the given and surname parts of a name. Implies that the person attaches this part to their name, but does not consider it part of the name itself. |
+| `PARTICLE` | A name part that connects or modifies other name parts but is not itself considered a name, like "of" or "son of". | 
+| `PATERNAL` | A name inherited from the individuals' father's family. Implies `SURN`. |


dthaler · 2024-08-13T16:02:51Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-4-enumerations.md

+| `PARTICLE` | A name part that connects or modifies other name parts but is not itself considered a name, like "of" or "son of". | 
+| `PATERNAL` | A name inherited from the individuals' father's family. Implies `SURN`. |
+| `PATRONYMIC` | A name of the individual's father, possibly with a patronymic modifier like prefix "bar" or "di ser" or suffix "sen" or "dotter". |
+| `PRIMARY` | The name of most prominent in importance among the names of that type. Requires `GIVN`, `SURN`, `NPFX`, or `NSFX`. |


Suggested change

| `PRIMARY` | The name of most prominent in importance among the names of that type. Requires `GIVN`, `SURN`, `NPFX`, or `NSFX`. |

| `PRIMARY` | The name of most prominence in importance among the names of that type. Requires `GIVN`, `SURN`, `NPFX`, or `NSFX`. |

I'm not yet convinced this is a good way to designate primary, based on the discussion in #528, since it requires special handling (i.e., apps are much more likely to do it wrong) when merging two individuals with different PRIMARY names, resulting in more than one PRIMARY which would violate the "most" part of the definition.

dthaler · 2024-08-13T16:05:16Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-4-enumerations.md

+| `RANK` | A designation of rank or position, for example in a military ("private first class"), nobility ("viscount de Spoelberch"), or  educational ("Ph.D.") system. |
+| `RELIGIOUS` | Religious name, name adopted when joining a religious order. |
+| `ROEPNAAM` | A name provided at birth for use in all situations except legal documents. Implies `GIVN` and `BIRTH`. The tag of this value comes from Dutch instead of English because no suitable English word was found; the value does not imply Dutch culture or ancestry. |
+| `RUFNAME` | A given name underlined or otherwise indicated on documents as one not to be omitted when only one given name is used. Implies `GIVN` and `PRIMARY`. The tag of this value comes from German instead of English because no suitable English word was found; the value does not imply German culture or ancestry. |


The "only one" part of this definition is confusing/ambiguous. Does that mean it is only permitted to have one RUFNAME per NAME? (There may be some interaction with the PRIMARY discussion as well.)

dthaler · 2024-08-13T18:49:55Z

specification/gedcom-3-structures-4-enumerations.md

+| `NICK` | A descriptive or familiar name that is used instead of, or in addition to, one’s official or legal name. Some cultures use this for any name that is not used in legal documents, others only for names that would be inappropriate in formal settings. |
+| `NPFX` | Text that appears on a name line before the given and surname parts of a name. Implies that the person attaches this part to their name, but does not consider it part of the name itself. |
+| `NSFX` | Text which appears on a name line after or behind the given and surname parts of a name. Implies that the person attaches this part to their name, but does not consider it part of the name itself. |
+| `PARTICLE` | A name part that connects or modifies other name parts but is not itself considered a name, like "of" or "son of". | 


Discussion: what about OCCUPATION. That would seem to be a common name part in some cultures and times in history. E.g., "Simon the Tanner" as a biblical name.

dthaler reviewed Aug 6, 2024

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Draft v8.0 replacement structure for personal names. #524

Draft v8.0 replacement structure for personal names. #524

tychonievich commented Jul 31, 2024

dthaler Aug 6, 2024

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dthaler Aug 13, 2024 •

edited

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		#### `PERSONAL_NAME_STRUCTURE` :=
		It is common for much of each name form to be identified in an name part,

	\| `GENERATIONAL` \| A name part shared by particular generation of a family (i.e. siblings or first cousins, but not their parents or children). Implies a cultural pattern of sharing this part, not just a particular family's aesthetic naming patterns. \|
	\| `GENERATIONAL` \| A name part shared by particular generation of a family (i.e., siblings or first cousins, but not their parents or children). Implies a cultural pattern of sharing this part, not just a particular family's aesthetic naming patterns. \|

		```

		There are other ways this could be encoded; the how many parts and forms to add is up to the user.

	The decision of whether two name forms count as a variants of a single name or as distinct names varies by culture and individual.
	The decision of whether two name forms count as variants of a single name or as distinct names varies by culture and individual.

	\| `PATERNAL` \| A name inherited from the individuals' father's family. Implies `SURN`. \|
	\| `PATERNAL` \| A name inherited from the individual's father's family. Implies `SURN`. \|

	\| `PRIMARY` \| The name of most prominent in importance among the names of that type. Requires `GIVN`, `SURN`, `NPFX`, or `NSFX`. \|
	\| `PRIMARY` \| The name of most prominence in importance among the names of that type. Requires `GIVN`, `SURN`, `NPFX`, or `NSFX`. \|

Draft v8.0 replacement structure for personal names. #524

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Draft v8.0 replacement structure for personal names. #524

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tychonievich commented Jul 31, 2024

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dthaler Aug 13, 2024 • edited Loading

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dthaler Aug 13, 2024 •

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