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Biblically Accurate Smartguns #213

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merged 12 commits into from
Apr 10, 2024

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grifp71
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@grifp71 grifp71 commented Apr 4, 2024

https://docs.google.com/document/d/19WB_cbJ1Yc-Z2byVt4XO66vzVr6A46fC54E8YYfivAs/edit?usp=sharing

Based off of a discussion today in the dev channel that included multiple people including myself, Andro, Morrow and Rock:

Significantly buffs Smartgun damage to be more lore accurate. This thing is a hammer. Fixes some of the fall-off. She's a monster, but you have to be supported by your team or you eat shit.

Shifts the smartgun into more of a crew-served weapon. It now requires an ammo bearer. The smartgunner cannot carry any extra drums. The squad has to do it for him in their satchels or backpacks. Soulful and makes sense as the squad is literally built around the smartgun.

Disallows the smartgun drum from being placed in GP pouches, the G8 belt, and drop pouches. Probably missed something but we'll patch any issues that arise.

Removes SG belts and adds 2 drums that spawned in the belts before hand.

This would work well hand-in-hand with #177

These damage values are not final and need playtested, but I think this is a soulful, cool change that fits the lore and atmosphere and makes the smartgun more interesting.

@bearrrrrrrr
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uhhh, that's a huge buff
killing players without acid damage is already a huge problem, and crushers are already kind of on the weaker side now as is
not sure if this is a good idea

@grifp71
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grifp71 commented Apr 5, 2024

Damage adjusted since first iteration, getting positive feedback on the new values. Awaiting more testing.

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github-actions bot commented Apr 6, 2024

This pull request has conflicts, please resolve those before we can evaluate the pull request.

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github-actions bot commented Apr 6, 2024

Conflicts have been resolved. A maintainer will review the pull request shortly.

@bearrrrrrrr
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eghhh still not a fan but 42 is better than 50 i guess

now up to player preference so idm

@Ollanius
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Ollanius commented Apr 7, 2024

I've played a couple full-length rounds while this pull request was active.
Here's my personal thoughts on the matter (and I apologize if it's inarticulate, since it's my first time commenting):

[]

  • Increase the 'highly precise' bullet damage to 46-52, and reduce the amount of starting 'smartgun drums' from 6 to 4.

I know that it does a lot of damage, but I believe that should be the case. It's a Smartgun, after all: a handheld autocannon that fires a larger cartridge than the standard Pulse Rifle. It's the big fucking gun, for when you absolutely need to shred an oncoming stampede of unarmored bugs. If you want to easily counter a Smartgunner, send a Crusher their way. Those fuckers'll tank a hundred armor-shredding bullets without batting an eye, and will always end up killing (or incapacitating) the Smartgunner before dying.

If we increase the damage, we should compensate by reducing the amount of drums that the Smartgunner starts with. A combat load of four spare drums (distributed between the Smartgunner and their designated assistant) would make much more sense from a lore-centric standpoint, while also reducing the potential powercreep that such a pull request might generate. You'd still be doing the same amount of overall damage that an unbuffed Smartgun (with six spare drums) would do - you'd just have to rely more on accuracy, instead of blindly spraying everywhere.

  • Allow for 'smartgun drums' to only be stored in 'drop pouches', 'medium general pouches', and the jumpsuit belt slot.

Smartgunners can comfortably carry about two spare drums with them, at most. You can theoretically carry up to five drums if you sacrifice your belt slot and pouches, but that means sacrificing your ability to carry additional utilities (like a machete scabbard or pistol belt) and supplies (like medicine and flares) With that in mind, most Smartgunners will burn through their personal supply within twenty minutes: this means that if a Smartgunner wants to actually stay effective for a whole mission, they'll need to coordinate with their squad.

You can see this with the 'gun-teams', which - until the test-merge - didn't really exist. I absolutely love the extra roleplay that's spawned from this change, especially when it comes into play during a 'defense' mission (like Whiskey Outpost or Blackstone Bridge). Having to actually use short, controlled bursts to conserve your drum's dwindling belt while your buddy's sprinting a hundred meters to fetch a fresh drum like they're an ammo-jockey in the trenches of Verdun? That shit's absolutely kino, and I hope it stays.

[]

Overall, I think this pull request is a very good idea. Smartgunners actually have to cooperate with their squad to get the most mileage out of their weapons, and are - in essence - rewarded for roleplaying.

I'd prefer that the 'highly precise' bullet damage is increased (and I'm fine if that means the 'armor shredding' bullet damage gets reduced as a result, or the total amount of drums are reduced), since it still feels a little bit anemic.

@FslashN
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FslashN commented Apr 7, 2024

I've seen this in action a couple of times with the current values. The damage could be bumped up by another 5 to 47. Maybe an increase in fire rate. Maybe both. The SG doesn't feel all that different than shooting with a regular rifle as of this comment. Which isn't all the surprising given the values.

@grifp71
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grifp71 commented Apr 7, 2024

I've seen this in action a couple of times with the current values. The damage could be bumped up by another 5 to 47. Maybe an increase in fire rate. Maybe both. The SG doesn't feel all that different than shooting with a regular rifle as of this comment. Which isn't all the surprising given the values.

I agree, I'm trying to collect some hard stats but most users seem to think it needs to punch up about five more damage on regular. I think I'd leave AP where it is, at least for now, to not trivialize crushers.

@grifp71
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grifp71 commented Apr 8, 2024

lets try this. increased rate of fire (like 150%), normal vanilla damage values

@grifp71
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grifp71 commented Apr 9, 2024

I am getting a lot of positive feedback with this ROF buff. I'd like to continue testing this but I think this might be a winner.

@Ollanius
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Ollanius commented Apr 9, 2024

I am getting a lot of positive feedback with this ROF buff. I'd like to continue testing this but I think this might be a winner.

Absolutely.
Played a few more rounds with the tweaked firerate, and it feels perfect. It's powerful enough that a Smartgunner can lock down a hallway (and hose a couple dozen bugs down in the process), but still forces them to be mindful of their ammunition and to cooperate with other drum-carrying squadmates.
I think you've nailed it down, perfectly.

@morrowwolf morrowwolf merged commit 4020295 into cmss13-devs:master Apr 10, 2024
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AmoryBlaine added a commit to AmoryBlaine/PvE-CMSS13 that referenced this pull request Apr 10, 2024
commit 6392549
Merge: 5c27cc6 72a1e3f
Author: AmoryBlaine <[email protected]>
Date:   Tue Apr 9 23:38:50 2024 -0400

    Merge branch 'PvE-CMSS13:master' into master

commit 72a1e3f
Author: KoishiVibe <[email protected]>
Date:   Tue Apr 9 21:04:11 2024 -0500

    more fluff, removes kevlar mentions and replaces with venlar (cmss13-devs#188)

    Co-authored-by: KoishiVibe <[email protected]>
    Co-authored-by: morrowwolf <[email protected]>

commit 0c61b76
Author: DexterDude <[email protected]>
Date:   Tue Apr 9 21:24:46 2024 -0400

    M44 sprite and sound changes (cmss13-devs#196)

commit 4475857
Author: morrowwolf <[email protected]>
Date:   Tue Apr 9 21:22:51 2024 -0400

    Medals (cmss13-devs#222)

commit 4020295
Author: grifp71 <[email protected]>
Date:   Tue Apr 9 21:22:20 2024 -0400

    Biblically Accurate Smartguns (cmss13-devs#213)

    Co-authored-by: morrow <[email protected]>

commit 5c27cc6
Merge: 298847c 0976be2
Author: AmoryBlaine <[email protected]>
Date:   Mon Apr 8 17:13:21 2024 -0400

    Merge branch 'PvE-CMSS13:master' into master

commit 0976be2
Author: AndroBetel <[email protected]>
Date:   Mon Apr 8 23:30:12 2024 +0300

    machetes now have belt slot sprites (cmss13-devs#224)

    Fix for a previously invisible belt scabbard.

commit 1a5b544
Author: grifp71 <[email protected]>
Date:   Sun Apr 7 19:15:10 2024 -0400

    Machetes on back for smartgunners (cmss13-devs#177)

commit 784a01f
Author: AmoryBlaine <[email protected]>
Date:   Sat Apr 6 19:00:35 2024 -0400

    Fixes horizontal access denied sprite (cmss13-devs#218)

    Horizontal fix.

commit c91382d
Author: Nihisohel <[email protected]>
Date:   Sun Apr 7 00:03:12 2024 +0800

    Tactical reload on the move (cmss13-devs#217)
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6 participants