"Upgraded custom incinerator tank" nerf

[kalazus]

About the pull request

Downgrades flamer_tank/custom/upgraded to flamer_tank/large/X (almost, napalmx has 40 duration instead of 50). Pyro still has even better custom tank.

Explain why it's good for the game

It's too op for non specialists to have 1.5(+fire penetration, +1 range) better fire than roundstart pyro, and same as custom pyro. It is not ok for non specialist to deal about 500 damage (initial setting on fire and 10 second before extinguish) in 1 click of flamer. Also, it makes pyro with custom fuel fully replaceable.

Testing Photographs and Procedure

Screenshots & Videos

Put screenshots and videos here with an empty line between the screenshots and the <details> tags.

Changelog

🆑
balance: reduces max intensity and max range of "Upgraded custom incinerator tank".
/:cl:

[iloveloopers]

At least lower it's price in the biomass machine to be dirt cheap since this nerfs it's main advantage over the free custom tanks printable at OT. The range buff is minimal and duration barely matters at the front where xenos are together and will vomit/pat each other.

[Drulikar]

Alternatively, if you feel they're too plentiful/powerful, increase the cost of them in research and or have them scale faster.

Of note they are still empty tanks so they also need the chemicals in them too to even utilize their increased limits.

[Drulikar]

Suggested change

	max_duration = 50
	max_duration = 50
	max_intensity = 50

[kalazus]

They are too powerful, not plentiful (at least haven't seen 3 with it at the same time). It replaces Pyro with research which is no ok. I'm not ok even with napalmx level fire for non specialist (replaces pyro without custom tank), but flamer_tank/custom was added 3 years ago, and wasn't such big of a deal.
What do you mean by "have them scale faster"?
50 with fire penetration is still much better than pyro.

[Drulikar]

See the parameters for

cmss13/code/datums/research_upgrade_datum.dm

Lines 115 to 135 in 31e1ffb

	/datum/research_upgrades/item/flamer_tank
	name = "Upgraded Incinerator Tank"
	desc = "An upgraded incinerator tank, with larger capacity and able to handle stronger fuels."
	value_upgrade = 300
	clearance_req = 1
	change_purchase = 100
	minimum_price = 100
	maximum_price = 1000
	item_reference = /obj/item/ammo_magazine/flamer_tank/custom/upgraded
	behavior = RESEARCH_UPGRADE_NULL
	upgrade_type = ITEM_ACCESSORY_UPGRADE
	/datum/research_upgrades/item/flamer_tank/smoke
	name = "Upgraded Incinerator Smoke Tank"
	desc = "An upgraded incinerator smoke tank with a larger capacity."
	value_upgrade = 100 //not useful enough to be expensive
	clearance_req = 1
	item_reference = /obj/item/ammo_magazine/flamer_tank/smoke/upgraded
	change_purchase = 50
	minimum_price = 100
	maximum_price = 500

It is currently 300 biomass to produce one, requires the first clearance level, and each print of one increases the cost by 100 biomass, to a max of 1000 biomass.

As far as outclassing pyro, OT/researchers can also give pyro better chems in a /obj/item/ammo_magazine/flamer_tank/custom/large which doesn't need any unlock or has any scaling cost.

[iloveloopers]

I'd like to note that the clearance level is mostly irrelevant as you need clearance 5 anyways to produce a fuel capable of reaching the tank's caps

[kalazus]

If you have chems you can use tank infinitely (scaling and initial value almost doesnt matter). Also, 300 biomass is nothing for brand new pyro specialist.

[TheManWithNoHands]

Ok, ignoring the fact for a moment that these tanks need to be earnd through killed xenos and arent free.

You do know, that the values your changing are only a cap. They dont change the power of for exampl: napalm in them.
They still need custom fuel, research needs to spend points on, to reach said cap. Or fuel that takes unresonable ammoutn.
Something they where always able to do. And often use for Ot nades.

Like, its very much earned to even be able effectivly used those tanks. If you just pour standart fuel in them there is no change really.

[kalazus]

If it will be too garbage with these changes, how about full revert then?
Pyro still has flamer_tank/large/custom to use "much earned" chemicals.

[iloveloopers]

We should probably take this balance discussion into discord but why shouldn't marines get stronger stuff as the round progresses? you're acting as if marines get their hands on this stuff 5 minutes after drop. Theres been about 5 rounds total where strong research flame was at play and they always arrived at the frontlines after 1:20 - 1:30~ hours or after xenos had already hijacked.

[TheManWithNoHands]

If it will be too garbage with these changes, what about full revert then? Pyro still has flamer_tank/large/custom to use "much earned" chemicals.

No, your change is just salt driven. Because, you wanna know a fun thing?
Base m240 OT tanks are capable of using flamer fuel with intensity 40. The intensity of Xfuel. The very thing you said shouldnt be allowed.

Besides that, Research tanks are the fairest thing research can even make. Its the only thing with a combat impact that is finite (cant make infinite more of them once you unlcoked it like chems) are destroyable, rquire a constant influx of new rescources, and cant be automaticly unlocked via stalling. Unlick stims and OT chems, wich can.

[Diegoflores31]

The PR has not been UP for more than 2 weeks and you are already asking for a nerf ? I literally never ever seen it on a round since it was merged.

You are basically nerfing a recently approved balance PR with no justification at all.

[Diegoflores31]

We should probably take this balance discussion into discord but why shouldn't marines get stronger stuff as the round progresses?

Bro this dude is just nerfing it for no reason . Upgraded flamer has not even been on the game for 2 weeks and literally never ever seen it used ingame.

[github-actions]

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