Adds IA as a vendor option (for more points than standard bottles)

[zzzmike]

About the pull request

Adds IA as a pill bottle in vendors for more points than the usual pill bottle.

Explain why it's good for the game

I know this could be "controversial" but, in server corpsman/doctor culture, IA is pretty much mandatory to have with you. Anytime someone complains about being blind for example, you should give them an IA pill. WHY are we forcing chemistry to make pills which are basically necessary for all corpsman and all doctors every round? They are busy enough with the 8+ custom mixes listed on the chemistry wiki page - not to mention that I've seen people ask for things not on the wiki as well. In any case, they will still need to make it frequently because this change only adds it as an option for 6 points in gear vendors (more points than other pill bottles).

Testing Photographs and Procedure

Screenshots & Videos

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Changelog

🆑
qol: IA is now an option for points in vendors
/:cl:

[Git-Nivrak]

Would make more sense to have imidazoline and alkysine available as separate options, so it's more on-par with the rest. I agree that it's pretty much mandatory to have IA however chemistry line should still have the more efficient mixes.

[zzzmike]

Would make more sense to have imidazoline and alkysine available as separate options, so it's more on-par with the rest. I agree that it's pretty much mandatory to have IA however chemistry line should still have the more efficient mixes.

At least with MB and KD there is a use-case for using plain bica or plain kelo (it'll heal slower in the short term but it'll last longer in the bloodstream so it could be useful for future/drawn-out engagements) - But IMO plain imi + plain alky would seem to exist for no other reason than "let's give chemistry more work when they already have plenty to do"

[zzzmike]

Would make more sense to have imidazoline and alkysine available as separate options, so it's more on-par with the rest. I agree that it's pretty much mandatory to have IA however chemistry line should still have the more efficient mixes.

Thought about this some more and I would support adding the separate options to WeyMed for free like plain bica is etc. but I would still want to keep the mix for points as well - I added the mix for points because I know it's an enticing option to spend points to save time vs. going to chemistry for it - kinda like how spending points as a corpsman for a smartpistol can be enticing vs. going to req for it etc.

[TheManWithNoHands]

This is a noob trap to waste points. Plain and simple. IA is always made by chem, you dont have trobule getting it for free.
All this would do is ad an option to use points for something you can get unlimeted for free. Wich is not the point of point shops.
They are there for stuff you cant get easily more of, or are time intensive to get. Like a full chem pouch, stasis bags, medkits, defis, bloodbags. All stuff thats very limited or costly in terms of mats and time to make.

Worst off all, this will open the door for the other chem mixes to be added as well. Because the main reason for this is "why not?".

So hard no. This has no purpose to be

note: Some chem mixes on the wiki are no longer viable. The wiki is heavily outdated. Like TB, IS, and ATD arent really used. IS itself is not usefull at all. Unironicly, its worse then plain Fe without sugar.

[zzzmike]

or are time intensive to get

Yes, this is a big part of why I added it. You wouldn't believe how long it takes to get chem to make essential things like IA sometimes, when they are busy with people asking for optional/niche stuff.

[TheManWithNoHands]

Yes, this is a big part of why I added it. You wouldn't believe how long it takes to get chem to make essential things like IA sometimes, when they are busy with people asking for optional/niche stuff.

Some players not doing their role sometimes, isnt reason enough to start implementing stuff to remove part of said role.

[zzzmike]

Some players not doing their role sometimes, isnt reason enough to start implementing stuff to remove part of said role.

I didn't say that they weren't doing their job, just that they were busy with custom requests rather than something that's considered mandatory at this point like IA. Also, chemical mixes from vendor is already a thing (revival mix, with another one pending - #6914 )

[TheManWithNoHands]

I didn't say that they weren't doing their job

Its a hyperbolic quote to broaden the general argument to its logical border. Dont take that as an acusation. Its only meant to show of the extreme case of the problem your trying to solve, to allow for a broader view. Gets easily confused for an acusation though.

Also, chemical mixes from vendor is already a thing (revival mix, with another one pending - #6914 )

Those arent the most common mixes that are added, like you want, but mixes that are situational and not always needed. Or they are chems that literally cost zero, like pure bicar, and would only waste time with no benifit. Also they arent pills, but pouches wich are a whole nother deal. 'cause the pouches are about a large quantity of chemicals. Ammounts that are so large, that, persay, you need to stand in chem for 10-15 minutes until they are done. About 400u after all that fits in there. You would run the chem power dry with one HM alone.

IA isnt hard to do, its always made, and its not needed to buy. All this will do, is ad an option for newplayers to buy something to waste points on. Every old HM will spend their points on stuff instead that they cant get for free from medical. Like, extra stasis bags. Special armor. Or a chem pouch that doesnt fully shut down the chemline for like 5 minutes.

[zzzmike]

Every old HM will spend their points on stuff instead that they cant get for free from medical. Like, extra stasis bags.

Every single HM yeah? I'm a plat HM and I'd spend points on it all the time. It's absolutely worth it in order to save myself time and save chem some time and machine energy. Also extra stasis bags are free from medical vendors which refill themselves over time.

Or a chem pouch that doesnt fully shut down the chemline for like 5 minutes.

Yes, if only people didn't ask for stuff which doesn't shut down the chemline for 5+ minutes (if chemline being held up wasn't an issue then I wouldn't have made this PR)

[ihatethisengine]

Honestly, IA is such a relic that it needs to be rebalanced, just like they did with Bica OD not healing IB anymore.

[efzapa]

IA takes less than 60 seconds to make even by bald nurses if they have the wiki up

merging this would give nurses even less shit to do and be a point sink for new players

probably a slippery slope argument but I do see this being used as a ramp towards giving medics premixed ATD and UNGA down the road

[zzzmike]

IA takes less than 60 seconds to make even by bald nurses if they have the wiki up

And yet, sometimes I'm waiting more than 10 minutes due to chemline, when I only want IA not any of the special chems. Chemistry should be specialized mixes like your examples of ATD/UNGA, not mandatory-every-round-for-every-medic stuff like IA. Besides, nurses are still gonna make IA because this costs points which not everyone is gonna use. Not to mention that it gets tedious for people to make multiple batches of IA every single round.

[ihatethisengine]

And yet, sometimes I'm waiting more than 10 minutes due to chemline, when I only want IA not any of the special chems. Chemistry should be specialized mixes like your examples of ATD/UNGA, not mandatory-every-round-for-every-medic stuff like IA. Besides, nurses are still gonna make IA because this costs points which not everyone is gonna use. Not to mention that it gets tedious for people to make multiple batches of IA every single round.

What exactly makes you think IA is mandatory? Why bonemending is not mandatory, bonebreaks happens way more often. Why, as another example, iron is not mandatory (unless this is your next pr lol)? People running out of blood constantly. Only (not reasonable) reason you consider IA mandatory is the fact it is the only pill that lets you to completely remove organ damage (but only from head). You cannot heal lungs with pills, you cannot heal heart, you cannot heal kidney. Although you can temporary heal organs with peri (which kinda makes IA not mandatory already, also synth and doctor can easily fix organ damage). IA is so strong for no reason and you wanna remove the only small skill barrier that somewhat justifies its existence.

[zzzmike]

What exactly makes you think IA is mandatory?

Because as long as IA exists roundstart, competent players will expect competent HMs to have it, as it's the only way to heal brain/eye damage in the field. (I don't even care if that is changed btw, I would happily close this PR if that was merged.) Also you can even detect eye/brain damage directly as HM with the recent penlight PR.

Why bonemending is not mandatory

It's not mandatory roundstart because it can't be created roundstart.

Why, as another example, iron is not mandatory

Because blood bags, MREs, and sometimes even MST in fob, exist.

[morrowwolf]

Pros:
Less annoying when you miss first drop because baldie is at the line and you just want some IA real fast.

Cons:
The more we make certain parts of loadouts "standard" (even if it's not free) the less people will feel able to experiment.
As annoying as the chem line is it can be a good spot to chat and interact with others. Every little change against this slowly erodes meaningful interaction between marine players.

Middling:
Continues the trend of trivializing the ability to trivialize long term wounds. Depending on how you see the game this could go either way. I think tension and genuine adrenaline reactions in the game are fueled by the consequences of actions. The more we make those consequences mean nothing for the sake of "it's annoying" the more we take away those real emotions when shit goes down. And sure, this is hardly killing the game but it's baby steps and since we're open source those baby steps are easy to keep walking.