Removes the option to produce OT rockets #7070
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I feel like this is not a solution for the problem personally, because all that is going to happen, is OT won't change, and a new meta will be formed, OT Mortars and grenades are still very VERY strong. I believe that changing the way OT functions, so they can not get maxcap instantly, and shifting it towards something even as mundane as passive buffs from gathering intel would be a better alternative. |
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I would disagree Mortar is already very dangerous for the surrounding area so despite the power of OT mortar, unless you are negligent you will avoid it OT grenades are very visible too with a completely different sprite to other nades, the power of them is also capped so you will not get gibbed from a glancing explosion If you wish to do your idea of a rework you can put it through drathek and do so yourself but as of right now balancing attempts have failed and no change has been in sight so action is being taken until something is put in place that will allow for rockets to have their place while not skewering all game balance negatively |
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The counter-argument is that OT mortar and grenades at least warn both parties as to what is going to occur due to the projectile travel time and/or detonation timer. In comparison, OT rockets offer zero warning to the opponent aside from the general threat a RPG user presents. Albeit this becomes a question of the fact there is no way to ascertain what kind of ammunition a RPG user has loaded. |
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Y'know what, I can understand the argument, and we can always readd the ability to make these if someone comes up with a solution for how to make OT progressive or fix its current issues. |
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I absolutely agree with this, OT rockets offers generally zero counterplay whatsoever. Infact, OT sadars are rewarded for missing in a way since the blast is gonna stun the xeno regardless. So even if the sadar aims for a xeno across your screen and you dont see him, he's gonna miss and you get one tapped. The only way I could see this being fixed, would be to just allow OTs to make AP/HE/WP rockets. Just, normal rockets. It's pretty simple. While it is STILL an issue for sadars to get 15+ free rockets, at least its not super death rockets. I would personally recommend just, allowing OT to instead make a recipe to copy the normal rockets in a future PR. Pretty much the only somewhat balancable thing (and still busted to get free AP/HE/WP rockets) |
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All the OT SADARs become useless after the spec gets permad so its a choice of putting most of your work in to a one man or most of your work in to PFCs and JTAC. OT SADAR is a gamble that you don't notice when it fails but cry about when it pays. |
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you can also completely recycle the rocket so nothing actually gets wasted |
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Same problem is with OT grenades and OT Mortars. Yes, SADAR wont be able to hit you with the T3 onehit big rocket. But Any marine can still hit xenos with the screen clearer nades or the OB mortar. OT needs a full on rework, not cope. |
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For the longest time there has been an issue with both queen and ravager due to the power they withhold, the main issue with queen though that many have addressed is the fact of the ability to spam screech. It has almost become standard to have an infinite of insta stun screeches funneled directly to the frontline. In no sense of the game is it fun to see a queen, begin to act to avoid a screech yet have yourself and anyone near you stunned for 10 seconds after a screech activates 7 tiles away from you, allowing for 0 risk free caps, mind you normal stuns would have a quarter second stun before you're back on your feet. Attempts to balance have been made with very little success, and so I feel until a proper solution is formed, queen screech should be removed from standard play for the time being. |
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For the longest time there has been an issue with both hedgehog and queen due to the power they withhold, the main issue with hedgehog though that many have addressed is the fact of the ability to spam their shield. It has almost become standard to have an infinite cycle of the hedgehog diving into the middle of the front, activating his shield, then leaping away with no risk. In no sense of the game is it fun to see a hedgehog, begin to act to avoid a shield yet have yourself and anyone near you get 15 fractures and shrapnel for after a ravager blindly sprints towards you and activates his shield, these fractures nerfing you for what is practically the whole round. Attempts to balance have been made with very little success, and so I feel until a proper solution is formed, hedgehog should be removed from standard play for the time being. |
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Yes please nerf maraines xenos need to be stronger |
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Hello Doom External, I am Luke Zitzmann |
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While m15s maxcaps are powerful (hell I try to use them myself all of the time as GL spec), they are in no way alike to OT rockets. M15s maxcaps have a minimum timer of 3 second that CANNOT be lowered with a grenade launcher, effectively leaving you 3 second as a xenomorph to clear the blast zone. Meanwhile as others said, a SADAR with an OT rocket can just aim in your general area not even seeing you properly and kill you. Unless OT SADAR rockets get like a specific downside like OT m15s, they should be removed. And yes, while OT likely needs a rework (cough* cough* merge them with research, no round start explosives cough* cough*), there is nothing wrong in removing an extremely flawed aspect of OT in the meanwhile. Hell, that's what happened to research several times before their rework. |
Nanu308
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Not a fan of outright removal as it stands, more interested in the other two PR's |
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This PR has been inactive for long enough to be automatically marked as stale. This means it is at risk of being auto closed in ~ 7 days, please address any outstanding review items and ensure your PR is finished, if these are all true and you are auto-staled anyway, you need to actively ask maintainers if your PR will be merged. Once you have done any of the previous actions then you should request a maintainer remove the stale label on your PR, to reset the stale timer. If you feel no maintainer will respond in that time, you may wish to close this PR youself, while you seek maintainer comment, as you will then be able to reopen the PR yourself |
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been on dnm for a couple of weeks with no activity, seems to be stale. feel free to ask us to reopen/ make a new pr if y ou work it out with nanu |
# About the pull request Was going to touch up the RPG since the two existing attempts aren't too good (#7070 #7072), but figured I might aswell fix up the rest of it into a less cancerous state, since for some reason no one's done it yet despite years of complaints. Mostly reducing the explosive radius to curb braindead screenwide death, while making the other two underused properties better (fire and shrapnel). Should make the OT less ridiculous to play against and hopefully introduce alternatives to spamming the same full explosive rocket/mortar recipes round after round. Rounded up some numbers cause it bothers me if it doesn't end in a 0, easier to memorize that way too. Played OT in the past, but didn't bother testing the new values so explosive falloff might require further tweaks to either side for desired intent. I'll write down the proper numbers into the CL if this gets accepted, can't be arsed otherwise. # Explain why it's good for the game - RPG: increased falloff, reduced flame radius and explosive power, buffed fire intensity and shrapnel amount. Custom rocket range -1 tile to 7 and raised accuracy to tier 5 Instant screenwide boom/fire bad. Closer to AP but not completely without AoE. - Mortar: Nerfed explosive radius, buffed fire intensity and shrapnel amount Last I checked this wasn't a HE OB shell, should be a little bit saner. - Small grenades: Raised container volume to 120 and slightly metal cost to compensate. Rounded numbers, raised fire intensity and shrapnel a bit. 90 is way too little. - Large grenades: Nerfed explosive radius, buffed fire intensity, fire radius, duration and shard amount Similar to RPG, slightly nerfing the screenwide explosions while making the other properties better - C4: nerfed fire and explosive radius, fire duration, buffed damage to adjacent walls, explosive power, shrapnel amount and doubled fire intensity Felt weird for c4 to have such large AoE, more power in a smaller radius makes more sense. - Claymore: nerfed flame radius and explosive radius, buffed, fire intensity and shard amount Less AoE to make it safer to use. # Testing Photographs and Procedure <details> <summary>Screenshots & Videos</summary> Put screenshots and videos here with an empty line between the screenshots and the `<details>` tags. </details> # Changelog :cl: balance: OT M40 grenade casing volume from 90 to 120, power 175 to 180, falloff 75 to 80, shards 32 to 40, fire intensity 20 to 25, metal cost from 3750 to 4250 which is 12% of a single metal sheet balance: OT M15 grenade casing power 215 to 220, falloff 90 to 120, shards 32 to 80, fire radius from 5 to 6, fire intensity 20 to 30 and fire duration 24 to 32 balance: OT claymore casing power 105 to 100, falloff 60 to 80, shards 32 to 40, fire radius 5 to 4, fire intensity 12 to 20 balance: OT C4 casing damage multiplier against walls from 1.5 to 2, power 260 to 280, falloff 90 to 120, shards 64 to 100, fire radius 6 to 4, fire intensity 26 to 50, duration 30 to 20 balance: OT rocket casing power 240 to 220, falloff 90 to 160, shards 64 to 80, fire radius 6 to 4, fire intensity 40 to 45 balance: OT mortar casing falloff 90 to 130, shards 128 to 200, fire intensity 40 to 45 balance: Custom rocket accuracy raised from tier 2 to 5 and range lowered from 8 to 7 /:cl: --------- Co-authored-by: Nanu308 <[email protected]>
About the pull request
As the title says, removes the option to create custom rockets utilising OT
Explain why it's good for the game
For the longest time there has been an issue with both OT and research due to the power they withhold, the main issue with OT though that many have addressed is the fact of the ability to create custom rockets. It has almost become standard to have an infinite supply of insta gib rockets funnelled to FOB to be used until sadar kicks the bucket.
In no sense of the game is it fun to see a sadar, begin to act to avoid a punish yet have yourself and anyone near you gibbed after a rocket hit 3 tiles away from you, mind you normal rockets would have a quarter second stun and you're back on your feet.
Attempts to balance have been made with very little success, and so I feel until a proper solution is formed, OT rockets should be removed from standard play for the time being.
Testing Photographs and Procedure
Screenshots & Videos
Put screenshots and videos here with an empty line between the screenshots and the
<details>tags.Changelog
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balance: removed the ability to create Custom rockets in standard play
/:cl: