Change WGs to always be part of a TAG #868

RichiH · 2022-07-05T15:00:28Z

No description provided.

Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

RichiH · 2022-07-05T15:00:52Z

This needs review/discussion, in particular on the proposed structure of listing WGs.

TheFoxAtWork

LGTM overall, some recommendations to add clarifying structure upon closure and other areas.

workinggroups/README.md

Co-authored-by: Emily Fox <[email protected]> Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

workinggroups/README.md

Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

nikhita · 2022-07-11T08:28:21Z

workinggroups/README.md


-## Process
+WGs must be created under the umbrella of a [CNCF Technical Advisory Group](https://github.com/cncf/toc/tree/main/tags) (TAG), and sponsored by a CNCF TOC member. In case of disagreement within TOC, a supermajority vote may be called 


Can a WG be created under the umbrella of multiple TAGs?

@nikhita I don't see why not, i also don't believe we should prevent a TAG's WG from being joint with another foundation. However there must be a very clearly defined governance of which entity is the "home" for the WG to resolve issues as well as define CoCC and other governance, license, and process escalation related items.

I think in the past we have addressed the overlaps but identifying "Related Work Areas" and "Other groups that the WG interacts with". There will always be overlap, I believe it should be fine as long as the community has clarity as to what that is.

nikhita · 2022-07-11T08:29:21Z

workinggroups/README.md

+WGs must be created under the umbrella of a [CNCF Technical Advisory Group](https://github.com/cncf/toc/tree/main/tags) (TAG), and sponsored by a CNCF TOC member. In case of disagreement within TOC, a supermajority vote may be called 
+
+WGs can be shut down
+* when the working group and TAG, with concurrence of the TOC sponsor, determines that they have reached their stated goals, or


If a WG has multiple umbrella TAGs, would consensus mean consensus among all the umbrella TAGs?

Would this consensus apply to both creation and disbandment?

Do you have a WG in mind whose scope needs to span multiple TAGs? Each TAG's scope seems quite broad.

Do you have a WG in mind whose scope needs to span multiple TAGs?

I didn't have a specific WG in mind...I was thinking mostly in terms of a WG needing to collaborate with other TAGs. @TheFoxAtWork and @raravena80 captured it well here - #868 (comment) :)

nikhita · 2022-07-11T08:37:12Z

workinggroups/README.md


-You will also have to present to the CNCF TOC and wider community before your WG proposal will be voted upon by the TOC and community. You can request a presentation by filing an issue here: https://github.com/cncf/toc/issues
+If you would like to submit a WG proposal, please get in contact with suitable umbrella TAGs. The TAG will follow their existing working group processes or engage with their TOC liasons to create the WG should no process exist.


How would the relationship between a WG and the umbrella TAG(s) look like after WG creation but before WG disbandment?

How do the umbrella TAG(s) and the TOC sponsor ensure that the WG's mission is still aligned with its current state?
Suggestion - can we have WG representative(s) provide updates to their umbrella TAG(s) with some regularity?

I like the suggestion on the update.

nikhita · 2022-07-11T08:37:56Z

workinggroups/README.md


+* Umbrella TAG & TOC liason


nit: some places call this TOC liason and some call this TOC sponsor

nikhita · 2022-07-11T08:43:37Z

workinggroups/README.md

+* TAG 123
+  * WG abc


This needs review/discussion, in particular on the proposed structure of listing WGs.

In case it's helpful, here's how Kubernetes lists down the Working Group to Stackholder SIGs mapping (especially given that one WG can map to more than one SIG) - https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/sig-list.md#working-groups

I really like listing stakeholders explicitly, both for its implication, "there are likely multiple stakeholder SIG's" and because it makes clear how the WG views its scope. Were we using full RACI one might suggest that were we to adopt this, TAG co-chairs should be included on PRs as a RACI "I" (informed).

dims · 2022-08-05T15:26:14Z

@RichiH could we please incorporate all the feedback so far and switch from Draft? thanks!

raravena80 · 2022-08-16T15:17:28Z

Discussed in the 08/16/2022 TOC meeting:

It would be great to have something like K8s SIGs for the CNCF https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/sigs.yaml
It would also be good to clarify either if the TOC needs to approve WGs in the TAG or the TAG has autonomy to create the WGs. Or if there are some cases where the TOC would need to review the approval.

halcyondude · 2022-08-17T23:58:51Z

It would also be good to clarify either if the TOC needs to approve WGs in the TAG or the TAG has autonomy to create the WGs. Or if there are some cases where the TOC would need to review the approval.

I had previously read what's below to imply that there were 2 classes/levels of WG. CNCF Working Groups ("TOC level"), and TAG created WG's.

TOC Working Groups

https://github.com/cncf/toc/tree/main/workinggroups

Working Groups can be formed at any time but must be sponsored by a TOC member and voted with a super majority vote by the CNCF TOC. The TOC can also shut down a working group with a super majority vote.

TAG Working Groups

https://github.com/cncf/toc/blob/main/tags/cncf-tags.md#responsibilities--empowerment-of-tags

TAGs may choose to spawn focused and time-limited working groups to achieve some of their responsibilities (for example, to produce a specific educational white paper, or portfolio gap analysis report). Working groups should have a clearly documented charter, timeline (typically a few quarters at most), and set of deliverables. Once the timeline has elapsed, or the deliverables delivered, the working group dissolves, or is explicitly re-chartered.

Are there actually 2 types of WG (or were there ever)?
Is the intent to have 1 type moving forward?

dims · 2022-08-25T18:37:15Z

We are trying to see which groups are still active here - #911

nikhita · 2022-10-10T13:17:27Z

From #868 (comment):

It would be great to have something like K8s SIGs for the CNCF https://github.com/kubernetes/community/blob/master/sigs.yaml

I have created #938

nikhita · 2023-08-30T07:31:24Z

@RichiH do you have bandwidth to drive this to completion?

The whole process needs to be revamped as part of cncf#1158. There was some work that was started as part of cncf#868, but the PR has languished. This PR keeps the existing process and defines a lightweight process for creation of new WGs in a TAG. This mirrors the process we follow today. Signed-off-by: Nikhita Raghunath <[email protected]>

TheFoxAtWork · 2024-04-16T17:53:44Z

Closing this PR as completed by #1159

Change WGs to always be part of a TAG

ff53d3b

Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

TheFoxAtWork reviewed Jul 5, 2022

View reviewed changes

workinggroups/README.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

workinggroups/README.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

workinggroups/README.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

RichiH added 3 commits July 6, 2022 15:41

Update workinggroups/README.md

c66a215

Co-authored-by: Emily Fox <[email protected]> Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

Update workinggroups/README.md

6db5568

Co-authored-by: Emily Fox <[email protected]> Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

Update workinggroups/README.md

6f171dc

Co-authored-by: Emily Fox <[email protected]> Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

RichiH commented Jul 6, 2022

View reviewed changes

workinggroups/README.md Outdated Show resolved Hide resolved

Update workinggroups/README.md

c8af8d6

Signed-off-by: Richard Hartmann <[email protected]>

nikhita reviewed Jul 11, 2022

View reviewed changes

dims mentioned this pull request Aug 25, 2022

Remove the older/defunct workinggroups folder #911

Closed

nikhita mentioned this pull request Oct 10, 2022

[WIP] tags: use tags.yaml as source of truth #938

Open

2 tasks

TheFoxAtWork added the enhancement label Aug 17, 2023

TheFoxAtWork added this to the TOC Repo Updates milestone Aug 17, 2023

nikhita mentioned this pull request Aug 30, 2023

working groups: audit existing and document process for new WGs #1158

Open

8 tasks

nikhita mentioned this pull request Aug 30, 2023

working groups: add process for creating new WGs in a TAG #1159

Merged

TheFoxAtWork closed this Apr 16, 2024

Provide feedback

Saved searches

Use saved searches to filter your results more quickly

Change WGs to always be part of a TAG #868

Change WGs to always be part of a TAG #868

RichiH commented Jul 5, 2022

RichiH commented Jul 5, 2022

TheFoxAtWork left a comment

nikhita Jul 11, 2022

TheFoxAtWork Aug 2, 2022

raravena80 Aug 2, 2022

nikhita Jul 11, 2022

cathyhongzhang Jul 12, 2022

nikhita Aug 3, 2022

nikhita Jul 11, 2022 •

edited

Loading

cathyhongzhang Jul 12, 2022

nikhita Jul 11, 2022

nikhita Jul 11, 2022

halcyondude Aug 18, 2022 •

edited

Loading

dims commented Aug 5, 2022

raravena80 commented Aug 16, 2022

halcyondude commented Aug 17, 2022 •

edited

Loading

dims commented Aug 25, 2022

nikhita commented Oct 10, 2022

nikhita commented Aug 30, 2023

TheFoxAtWork commented Apr 16, 2024


		## Process
		WGs must be created under the umbrella of a [CNCF Technical Advisory Group](https://github.com/cncf/toc/tree/main/tags) (TAG), and sponsored by a CNCF TOC member. In case of disagreement within TOC, a supermajority vote may be called


		You will also have to present to the CNCF TOC and wider community before your WG proposal will be voted upon by the TOC and community. You can request a presentation by filing an issue here: https://github.com/cncf/toc/issues
		If you would like to submit a WG proposal, please get in contact with suitable umbrella TAGs. The TAG will follow their existing working group processes or engage with their TOC liasons to create the WG should no process exist.

Change WGs to always be part of a TAG #868

Change WGs to always be part of a TAG #868

Conversation

RichiH commented Jul 5, 2022

RichiH commented Jul 5, 2022

TheFoxAtWork left a comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

nikhita Jul 11, 2022 • edited Loading

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

halcyondude Aug 18, 2022 • edited Loading

Choose a reason for hiding this comment

dims commented Aug 5, 2022

raravena80 commented Aug 16, 2022

halcyondude commented Aug 17, 2022 • edited Loading

TOC Working Groups

TAG Working Groups

dims commented Aug 25, 2022

nikhita commented Oct 10, 2022

nikhita commented Aug 30, 2023

TheFoxAtWork commented Apr 16, 2024

nikhita Jul 11, 2022 •

edited

Loading

halcyondude Aug 18, 2022 •

edited

Loading

halcyondude commented Aug 17, 2022 •

edited

Loading