add Indonesian bus company

[koenvanhollebeke]

Hi,
Please add the Indonesian bus company DAMRI:

network=DAMRI
network:wikidata=Q10978982
route=bus

Thanks.

[Snowysauce]

I looked at DAMRI's website (through Google Translate), and I'm having difficulty determining if DAMRI is a bus network or a bus network operator. Their site has links for "City Transportation", "Intercity Transportation", and "Cross Border Transportation" (as translated by Google), which to me implies that they have multiple networks serving different purposes across Indonesia.

The distinction between a network (in the OSM sense) and an operator is important because NSI's intention is to index transport networks, not transport network operators (or at least not directly - a network can and often does have an operator tag stored along with it). If DAMRI has separate networks in different areas across Indonesia, those specific networks should be indexed in NSI, with DAMRI listed as their operator and Q10978982 as the operator:wikidata. I'd suggest examples, but I couldn't find any route or network schedules or maps on their site or by Googling.

[koenvanhollebeke]

HI,
From my experience in Indonesia: indeed it is correct that there are different levels where DAMRI is operating - airport busses, city busses, long distance intercity busses and now even international connections. All operate under the DAMRI cover - busses are owned by DAMRI (state owned), employees on DAMRI paylist. Organised through local branches but using the general DAMRI identification. So in my understanding it is a national network, where the network and operator are the same, running unique connections.
You will not find much googling as google doesn't reach that far (same as for Pelni and ASDP for the water transport) yet. Most of the announcements for lines are done via facebook and not in their website; also in their app most common connections are given.

Examples:

• airport bus (from/to Soekarno Hatta Jakarta): https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=897192849119644&set=pb.100064868105071.-2207520000&type=3
• intercity connection (from/to Denpasar): https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=883705527135043&set=pcb.883705553801707
• international (to/from Malaysia): https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=843332471172349&set=pcb.843332487839014
• busses to train stations (eg. the high speed line between jakarta and Bandung): https://www.facebook.com/photo/?fbid=873460278159568&set=a.661351506037114

[Snowysauce]

Thanks for the added information. I understand that the line between network and operator is somewhat blurry in this case, but there is at least one existing instance in OSM where a batch of DAMRI lines was identified as a standalone network, with multiple routes comprising said network.

[koenvanhollebeke]

Hi,

As far as I could find out: Pelni (ship), ASDP (RORO ferries), DAMRI (bus), KAI (trains) and many other organisations fall under the BUMN (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/State-owned_enterprises_of_Indonesia) governed by the Ministry of State Owned Enterprises. Besides that there is also Teman bus (https://id.wikipedia.org/wiki/Teman_Bus, only indonesian language) which falls under the Ministry of Transport - not the same.

The case in Bandung: yes, I overlooked and in some cases DAMRI is also (only) the operator; in this case the network is Trans Metro Pasundan (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trans_Metro_Pasundan) - operators are DAMRI(state) and Big Bird/Blue bird group(private).
So there should be a difference between network & operator = DAMRI and operator = DAMRI but the network could be a different layer.

Koen

[Snowysauce]

So there should be a difference between network & operator = DAMRI and operator = DAMRI but the network could be a different layer.

I took a bit to think about this, and if there truly isn't anything resembling a network in between the "route" and "operator" levels of the hierarchy (so to speak) in most of the country, we could add DAMRI as a network + operator. However, based on testing, in order to ensure that iD doesn't mess with any DAMRI-operated-only networks (like in Bandung), we'd also need to add those operator-only networks to the NSI.

This stems from a feature of the iD editor where it checks both the network and operator values (as well as network:wikidata and operator:wikidata) for network preset suggestions. In my quick tests, iD seems to check the network values first, then the operator values if the network values didn't match anything. Thus, if we only added DAMRI, an object tagged as network=Trans Metro Pasundan, operator=DAMRI would still be suggested by iD for an "upgrade" to network=DAMRI. (This doesn't happen in other editors like JOSM, but we have to pay special attention to iD due to its popularity.) Having an entry in the NSI for the other network in play (like Trans Metro Pasundan) seems to override this behavior.

There's also the option of geofencing, but based on your description of how public transport works in Indonesia, I'm assuming that the "DAMRI network + operator" and "DAMRI-operated-only" service areas overlap and thus geofencing wouldn't work.