changes pyro and GL armour to be the standard medium+ light range

[Mister-moon1]

About the pull request

Increases armour light range on pyro/GL armour to 5

Explain why it's good for the game

Missed during the buff of armour lighting

Testing Photographs and Procedure

Screenshots & Videos

Put screenshots and videos here with an empty line between the screenshots and the <details> tags.

Changelog

🆑
balance: increased GL and pyro armour light range to properly match other armours like it.
/:cl:

[PhantomEpicness]

Pyro is centered around area control and denial, not the ability to be mobile and chase. Pyros who play it in this role, play it well and when they don't they end up being PFC+ or downright worse for the marines by blocking pushes.

I feel like this would also be overpowered as it would allow pyros to solo kill xenos by lighting with blue flame and chasing with fire.

Just my 2 cents as a someone who's played pyro and xeno a lot.

[irakligabunia]

About the pull request

Converts pyro's m35 pyrotechnician armour into light armour using the ghillie suit armour values and changes GL's armour to having 5 light range since it should be included with heavy armour, which does have the 5 light range

Explain why it's good for the game

Pyro is undoubtedly the one spec that will be pointmanning, which often requires mobility and ability to chase, which is not supported by the slow nature enforced by the current armour, every other spec role other than GL has armour that has light tier slowdown.

With this PR I have matched the stats of pyro armour with the ghillie suit which seems fair considering they both have their utility factors with supply being limited to the spec role

Testing Photographs and Procedure

Screenshots & Videos

Changelog

🆑 balance: stat changed pyro armour and slowdown values to match ghillie armour balance: increased GL armour light range to properly match other armours like it. /:cl:

i like specialists being unique, i dont see why it has to be "meta"
you can just use light armor instead if you're that bothered by it
or just use the normal armor for area denial, like you're supposed to
or for rescuing others

[Mister-moon1]

The difference is the fact that pyro armour outside the ability is barely better than medium armour which feels like a noob trap already, its not necessarily making it meta but buffing it to be in line with other specialist gear, the armour you have should be the best for your specialist role which isnt reflected by current pyro armour. Considering the fact that pyro already has a tool to instantly put themselves out and they can already take ghillie armour it doesnt feel like a big deal to just have a more convenient version in line with the role

[TheManWithNoHands]

The difference is the fact that pyro armour outside the ability is barely better than medium armour which feels like a noob trap already

Then make it better medium armor. Just changing the type of armor alone is a much more significant change then aligning the armor values with medium armor.

As others said pyro is for area denial and not for chasing. A normal PFC with flamer/attachment is much better for the role of chasing. If you where to make pyro more in line with the other specs, you would remove its uniqe playstyle and replace it with one that is already present in game. Your would delet a way of playing in favor for an already existent one.

[Mister-moon1]

Area denial is NOT where pyro's strong suit is at, enforcing that playstyle i personally feel is wrong, how many times i can count where xenos just attack through fire because most of the damage comes from the initial hit, not from the damage over time, green fire is only type that threatens xenos that push through it but thats very short term considering they will just pat out a path in a short amount of time, at its best green fire is used to cover retreats.

Also what do you mean the unique playstyle would be removed should this go through, lets see, we have GL who waits in the middle of a pack of marines for an opportune time to strike, sniper keeping distance, scout flanking and taking out lone xenos, sadar waiting for xenos to over extend; all compared to the offensive rushdown nature that pyro is the best at. I have a clip compilation of my hours of pyro and i can tell you now, 90% of the kills were from extending towards and bringing the fight to xenos, at the very end there is one where i die because i had tried to use area denial (big surprise)

Im also confused by the fact that youre saying that a PFC with a flamer should be better at chasing, when a specialist is supposed to be the epitome of "anything you can do i can do better", even then i will disagree because the extinguisher is what i call the main tool of pyro considering it allows you to use the flamer aggressively while not worrying about cutting off the push, combine this with the fact that most of fire damage is from the initial hit then you have very high damage potential with little convenience

As for your concerns of wiping your style of play of walls of fire, nothing is stopping you from doing that, you will just be faster when doing so. Also I can say now that the other specs arent necessarily all unique, any pfc can use grenades, any pfc can use an m4ra with a 4x, any pfc can take a flank or hivedive etc etc, just that these abilities are enhanced in the hands of specialists.

[The-Sun-In-Splendour]

I was gonna post a massive wall of text on why pyro armour is actually detrimental to use right now but then I made the revelation that even if this PR was merged I would just not use the pyro armour because the ability to burn to death instead of getting capped through a blue wall of death is too good to pass on. I could post it but here's a TL;DR:

1. Not being able to burn to death just makes it way too easy to capture you through flames
2. Having high speed as pyro is extremely important (you need to get in position to flame without FF-ing, and chase if you're a backliner pyro)
3. Area denial is legitimately better done with a flamer sentry than a pyrospec.

[TheManWithNoHands]

Ok, odly personal. Had to holdmyself back not to do the same.

Pyro has no uniqe tools to chase. Pyros uniqe tools consist of:

1. X-Fuel. A high damage
2. Armor that prevents fire stacks and ahs the ability to prevent burn damage for a short ammount of time.
3. A large supply of fuel via their backpack and generally larger tanks.
4. wide spread B-Gel (i belive it was b-gell. That i aint sure on.)

What do PFC can use to chase with flames?
First what everyone even pyro spec can use:

1. underbarrel Flamer
2. Underbarrel extinguisher
3. Ligth armor
4. B-Gel

Now what only PFC cna use and not Pyro spec.

1. fire Ball nozzel

Yeah thats it. Fire ball nozzel with B-Gel is incredibly good. It allows PFc to slow xenos down and reduce their armor over a range Pyro cant achive. Much faster too, because the fire ball travels faster then fire walls.

Yes, Pyro CAN chase. But its not what they are best at. Most of their tool kit allows for coverage of large areas and and sustaining doing so. They are bad at targeting singel targets, and they are bad at burst damage. Pyro accels of Denying entry and Damage over time.

Pyro is the only role in the game capabel of singelhanditly stopping pushes and flanks. Yes, ligther armor would help with that. But Pyros armor is medium to balance their power. Being abel to be fully imune to fire stacks, being shortime imune to all burn damage, Abel to reduce armor, slow enemys, denial entry on large areas, and inflict heavy damage over time, is all incredibly strong. To balance all that, you need to somehow keep pyro balanced. Why do you think Pyros armor is the most obvious of them all?

[Mister-moon1]

I feel like alot of what you argue is irrelevant, green fire and nozzle also is not good, you want xenos in the flamed tiles as long as possible, the reduce in armour only applies if you are standing on the tile, as for chasing, if you use the extinguisher properly then you would have no issue chasing compared to the nozzle,

What really baffles me and makes me question your experience is the fact you say that pyro doesnt deal in burst damage when a large majority of damage done is the initial burst of flame that deals around 180 or so damage, the damage over time, although high at 45 roughly halves when the xeno resists the fire, not accounting for anyone nearby to help

as mentioned prior, i have used walls of fire before, only that xenos just walk though it, fracture your limb, then go back to safety because it really isnt life threatening when relying on damage over time fire,

now what really excels at denying entry is combat technicians because of their little known gimmick called building barricades, pyro compared to this is laughably bad, even through green fire which one would imagine would deter a push, ive seen warriors just lunge through it to attack me to be perfectly fine, mainly because they know noone else can go through it, its a hazard to all parties

[The-Sun-In-Splendour]

Pyro absolutely does NOT maximize in damage over time. Sure, it can come in clutch, especially during strong pushes or against little rounys, but 99% of my kills as pyrospec come from direct hitting a blue flame and instantly evaporating half of a xeno's health. It is 100% burst damage. Pyro is like a sniper but he trades range and IFF for not having to wind up his 200 damage satanizer.

In fact, I don't play chase pyro. I play frontline pyro, and so far the most effective tactic I've found was (direct) blue firing xenos that were either in the middle of an attack, or retreating from getting a bit too injured.

The only times I've had area denial pyro work was during FOB sieges, covering areas for the comtechs to repair. Otherwise, sure, you stop a xeno push... But they're not dying while you're doing that.

[Nanu308]

Reminder that Github is not the discussion place.

However, i agree with the general sentiment here that this is over the top for what is already a strong spec. If you wish to play it differently, the gear is there to take but then you are making a choice.

Removing that choice by buffing the already good armor, i don't see as good for the game in this case, especially with how powerful movement speed is in CM.

I'm against this personally, but maybe some other maintainer can argue your case further if someone is for it.

[ondrej008]

The GL light change seems good.

I don't see the point of the change for pyro armor because what @The-Sun-In-Splendour said can already be done and cannot be done with the existing armor, so even if the PR went through it would still be beneficial to take light armor.

And if you are doing area denial then the movespeed change won't affect you that much.

[github-actions]

This PR has been inactive for long enough to be automatically marked as stale. This means it is at risk of being auto closed in ~ 7 days, please address any outstanding review items and ensure your PR is finished, if these are all true and you are auto-staled anyway, you need to actively ask maintainers if your PR will be merged. Once you have done any of the previous actions then you should request a maintainer remove the stale label on your PR, to reset the stale timer. If you feel no maintainer will respond in that time, you may wish to close this PR youself, while you seek maintainer comment, as you will then be able to reopen the PR yourself

[Mister-moon1]

Have also batched the armour to the light increase to pyro armour considering all medium+ armours were supposed to receive the buff

[Drulikar]

Please fix the PR description and change log.

[Diegoflores31]

Thspecialist role which isnt reflected by current pyro armour. Considering the fact that pyro already has a tool to instantly put themselves out and they can already take ghillie armour it doesnt feel like a big deal to just have a more convenient version in line with the role

Untrue pyro armor is pretty much one of the only armors in the game that provide feet armor that STACKS with boots making it insanely tanky against most benos since is meta to aim there.